Episode 172: Overcoming People-Pleasing to Make Big Decisions - with Sarah & Jess
Join Sarah and Jess as they share their inspiring journeys of transformation, from navigating divorce to embracing life abroad. Once bound by people-pleasing habits, these two former clients found the courage to make bold changes and pursue their truth. In this episode, they discuss the toughest challenges they faced, how they conquered their fears, and why taking the risk was ultimately worth it. Tune in to hear their powerful stories of finding freedom and fulfillment.
Topics
Personal Stories of Growth and Transformation
Sarah's journey of overcoming fear of doing things alone and asserting her needs
Jess's struggle with past perceptions and embracing her true self
Sarah navigating a divorce after a 13-year marriage
Jess making significant life changes, moving countries, and owning her decisions
Sarah and Jess's challenges in explaining and justifying their decisions to others
Links
👉 Make the second half of 2024 your best year yet! join us at selfgrowthnerds.com/school to learn more 👈
Sarah's recommendation:
Jess's recommendations:
Jess' Conflict Course: www.wiserconflict.com
Transcript
[AUTO-GENERATED]
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:00:06]:
Welcome to the Self Growth Nerds podcast. I'm your host Marie, a courage coach, creative soul and adventure seeker. Since thru hiking the Pacific Crest Trail in 2019, I'm on a mission to help you embrace your most confident self so you can achieve your dreams too. If you're eager for deep conversations, big questions and meaningful connections, join me on the quest to discovering how we can create a more magical and memorable life. Hello, nerds. How are you? I'm doing so good. I'm smack in the middle of moving in with my partner. Basically what we're gonna do is I'm gonna go to his place while we renovate my place and when that's done we're gonna both move back in here and decorate the way that we love it.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:01:01]:
It's gonna be a whole new beginning for the 2 of us and we both have a really colorful, playful aesthetic so it's gonna be a lot of fun to, to make the place our own. I'm also smack in the middle of the enrollment period for Confident Nerd School. So if you haven't listened to last week's episode, it's my new group coaching program that's starting on June 18th. I'm really excited to meet the members in the Growth. It's gonna be a small group, maximum 15, and we're gonna be working closely together for 6 months, so all the way to the end of the year. And this is all about spending the second half of twenty twenty four discovering who you are on the other side of fear. Who is the most courageous version of you? And what becomes possible in your life when you step into those shoes? There's a quote that I find super impactful. I don't know who it's attributed to, but I had it on a Post it for so long.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:02:05]:
It it Nerds, true hell is when the person you are meets the person you could have been. I remember seeing this like 5, 6 years ago and having a real moment of reckoning. I I was like, if I keep doing what I've been doing, how am I gonna feel in, like, 10 years? I'm gonna feel so disappointed. I'm gonna feel like I've wasted time trying to protect myself, not wanting to ruffle any feathers, instead of taking chances and having like epic stories about the path I've been on. That was one of the main motivators for me to step out of a passive role and and into a very much active one. Where I'm being decisive and I have conviction about where I'm going. But in order to do that, you know, willingness is not enough because we're working with a bunch of unconscious forces. All the neural pathways in your brain that you have been conditioned to to take for years years years that Nerds you to repeating the same patterns without you even noticing.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:03:27]:
That's why my new program is not just a place where you're gonna be told, come on, you can do it. That's just shallow positive thinking that your unconscious doesn't believe. So we're just performing confidence. Instead, what we're gonna do in my new program is focus on developing the skills that are going to help you embody confidence. Not just like as a mindset concept, but feeling it in your bones. The other day one of my mentors said that you develop confidence by doing something that makes you wanna quit every day and not quitting. This resonated with me so deeply and it's very much in alignment with how I designed The Confident Nerd School. I believe that we develop mental and emotional strength by putting ourselves in harm's way and seeing that we survive.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:04:25]:
Seeing that we are stronger than we thought we were. To me, confidence is not the the belief that you can do anything. It's the belief that you can whatever happens, you can figure it out. That if you try something and it doesn't go according to plan, that's okay. You can stand up and try again without beating yourself getting really, really clear on who you are. So getting really really clear on who you are. So reintroducing yourself to yourself instead of the person that you've been playing, the masks you've been wearing. We're gonna remove all of the masks, reconnect with your inner voice, with what really matters to you, what lights you up, your biggest strengths, your most wonderful qualities, and figure out where you're going.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:05:23]:
Where you wanna go. What's the unique contribution you can make in the world that's gonna make you feel proud. That's gonna make you feel like in your zone of genius. So that you don't look back and think oh, you know, I was just like a cog in the machine. No. So that's the what we're gonna spend the 1st 3 months doing and then we're gonna make like a decision on what we want to focus on first. The first mission we want to go on. We're gonna turn everything that we've dreamt up into like an implement implementation plan.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:06:00]:
I have a hard time with this long word. Let's just say an action plan instead that we're going to implement in the last 3 months. The last 3 months are all about trial and error. Trying a bunch of things that are scary to you and seeing what happens. During that time you will not be left on your own. I will teach you tools to manage your mind and manage your emotions so that you don't freak out so that you can think rationally with your feet on the ground, and so that you have ways to expand your nervous system capacity to take risks. Instead of feeling like it's a life or death situation, like you have to make the right decision, and if it doesn't work, it's gonna be embarrassing, you're gonna disappoint a bunch of people. No.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:06:49]:
We're gonna de dramatize the whole process, and it's going to feel more like a playful science lab. We're all gonna be in this together. Because that's the other thing. If in your day to day life, you're surrounded by people who make, safe decisions. People who are in a stable job that they don't really like. They've got their house, their cars, their kids, their marriage. And they don't really concern themselves with whether or not they're fulfilled, whether or not their life has meaning, they just do what's expected of them, then if that's what you're surrounded by, it's going to be that much more challenging for you to go against the current. For you to question the status quo.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:07:36]:
Because people are going to look at you like you're the weird one, like you're delusional, like you're doing like you're just about to ruin your life when that's not the case. You might just have different values. You prioritize living fully and making an impact rather than being comfortable. My clients have told me again and again and again how helpful it is to be surrounded by other people who prioritize growth. It makes it easier for them to open up about what they really want because they're not afraid of being judged, and then acting on those desires because they're not the only ones doing so. The other thing I've been told very often about my group programs is that it's a place to rehearse your truth before having the courage to show up as that version of you in the real world. So if that's something you're curious about, go to Self and apply. If you apply before June 1st, so that's Saturday, you're gonna get a 90 minute intensive purpose session with me.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:08:49]:
In this session, we're gonna identify the unique contribution you can make in the world through a 90 minute deep dive into the turning points of your personal story, what lights you up more than most, and the areas where you can make the most impact. So just apply before June 1st if you wanna have access to this bonus. And once you have applied, you'll know within 3 days if you're accepted, and you can always book a call with me if you wanna check-in, see if we're a good match before you make your decision. So all the information is at Self. And now let's jump into today's topic. We are talking about overcoming people pleasing and making big decisions in your life. This is a super interesting conversation with 2 of my former clients, Sarah and Jess. They're friends in real life.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:09:49]:
They're really insightful and funny people. We go deep in this one. They're gonna tell you about leaving a relationship after, I think, 18 years? Sarah spent most of her life with her former husband. And Jess moved away from all her people to kinda start over in Hawaii. So they're gonna tell you about the hardest parts of taking those leaps. What helped them actually find the courage to do so. What are the the beliefs that they had to reframe? They had to completely change their way of thinking in order to be able to do this. And we also talk about the importance of getting to know your needs and being able to advocate for them even though it makes us feel like we're being difficult.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:10:42]:
It's gonna have a massive impact on the quality of our lives. So that's just a few of the things that we talk about. There's a lot of laughter, there's a lot of introspection. Basically my favorite kind of conversation. I'm sure you will enjoy it. Let's start by hearing Sara's introduction. Sara, go ahead and tell us more about who you are.
Sarah Marshall [00:11:08]:
Alright. Well, hi, everyone. I am based in Newark, Delaware, and I am a recovering protectionist and people pleaser. And I feel very lucky that I've had Jess and Marie by my side on this journey. So in, gosh, a little bit over a year ago now, I made the decision to separate from my husband. And, like, looking back on the timeline, made the decision to actually go forward with the divorce around this time a year ago. And that has been just one of many decisions on this journey, but it was a big one. And, we had been married for 13 years and together for 18.
Sarah Marshall [00:12:02]:
So I had been in this relationship for my entire adult life because I had been with them since I was 17. So it was a it was a really big shift. But we'll get into that to that later.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:12:16]:
Oh, yeah. We'll get we'll get into the nitty gritty of that giant decision. My god, 18 years. Okay. What about you Jess?
Jessica Velez [00:12:29]:
I am currently studying on the island of Oahu in Hawaii where I live and have lived for almost 3 years now, which was my big life decision, which was giving up my apartment and my job and my life in Delaware with Sarah. Although, it's no reflection on you, Sarah.
Sarah Marshall [00:12:50]:
Didn't leave.
Jessica Velez [00:12:51]:
Which we always said. And then, yeah, in the middle, probably a year into COVID, I moved out here for, I would say work, but moving to Hawaii is about way more than work. So there was a work opportunity that allowed me to come out here and kind of just turn my life on its head in a pretty big way.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:13:16]:
And you went back to school recently as well, didn't you?
Jessica Velez [00:13:20]:
Yeah. Yes, I did. I'm I'm in a a graduate program. I just I'm about to finish my 1st year and so I have 2 years left.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:13:29]:
Awesome. I remember, Jess, when we started working together, you had you had moved to Hawaii not not too, long ago, and you were struggling to own it. Own that you wanted to be there, and that you didn't it was not like a temporary move. I know, like, your Yeah. Your family and your friends have maybe question marks in in on on their minds, and you were struggling to be unapologetic about your choice. Can you tell us about what was hardest in making that decision and and most of all owning it?
Jessica Velez [00:14:04]:
Yeah. Well, I actually came here telling everyone it was temporary, so that was probably why they thought that. So, and I think I told myself that too because it felt like such a big move at the time that I was like, I don't know. 6 months will tell me if that's the right thing to do. And, it kinda just made it easier for me to do. Like, I took a suitcase or 2. And I was just like, I just need a couple things, and so I'll be there for a couple of months. And I thought that would help my family and my friends be like, okay.
Jessica Velez [00:14:39]:
Like, this is not so scary. Like, she it you can undo it. Right? It's a decision you can undo. It's like you can just decide I'm moving back. Like, no big deal. And but actually in telling in trying to convince them, I convinced myself it was temporary. And when it became not temporary, well, it's really scary because now when people are like, when are you coming back? When are you coming back? It's like, I don't know. Never? Like and who knows? Like, no one really knows how long, like, how long anything lasts.
Jessica Velez [00:15:12]:
So it's like, you know, I'm trying to convince them everything's okay, but I'm I convinced everything's okay. And how do I reconcile, like, what I'm telling people and what I'm telling myself and, you know, what I'm telling people on the island when they ask me, like, you meet new friends, and they're like, oh, how long are you gonna be here? And they're like, the question mark. As long as I can or feel like it or want to. Like, that's the Growth, but kind of a complicated truth people don't I don't know that they don't wanna hear, but it doesn't fit in with a narrative of milestones. Like, I'm going to be here for this long, and then I'm going to do this next milestone, and then I'm going to buy a home, and then I'm going to have a child. It was like, I'm not sure. Could be any length of time. Could be for any reason, because I'm single and don't have, like yeah.
Jessica Velez [00:16:04]:
Don't own property. And so, like, my life's pretty much what I wanna make it. And so it was really difficult to make that shift and be like, I'm here. I'm here for as long as I wanna be. I'm here. I also moved leaving a really stable 9 to 5 job. And I started working for a small business that I'm now part owner of. And so that too is, like, a really different thing than other people do.
Jessica Velez [00:16:31]:
And trying to explain to them, like, I don't know what my work looks like. I don't know how long my clients will be here versus somewhere else or how long I even wanna do a job like this. At the time, it was, like, really scary to leave something stable. And so you just kept, like every time I talked about it, I would, like, shave off the edges to make it nice and soft for people to hear or get or understand. But it was doing that to me, and it was taking away my own excitement about it. So it's like, I need to own being here. I need to own having this new exciting adventure. I need to own that it's not gonna look like what my friends are doing or what my family thinks I should be doing as one of the oldest in the family, and they're like, you know, we're we're waiting for you to jump on the on the timeline.
Jessica Velez [00:17:22]:
So being in the program and being surrounded by other people who also were questioning what they wanted to do and how they wanted to do it was, like, really helpful in claiming that space for myself. Mhmm.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:17:35]:
And when you say being in the program, she means, being in the the Brave Bull coaching program Mhmm. That I was hosting. Mhmm. Yeah. So I hear a lot of different things here. There's for you to tolerate the discomfort of uncertainty, to learn to, like, emo emotionally tolerate uncertainty. And also, the the discomfort that comes with talking about this with others.
Jessica Velez [00:18:07]:
Yeah. Explaining yourself when you're not sure you quite understand yourself anyway.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:18:16]:
What was that like for you, Sarah, in your decision to get a divorce? What what was hardest? Did you also have to to face explaining to others and trying to justify yourself?
Sarah Marshall [00:18:31]:
For me, it felt more like I had to do a lot more explaining to myself, and to my partner because we had been in this relationship for so long. And I was convinced that I had really given it all that I could and that I didn't have anything left to give at the end in terms of trying to fix things. And so a lot of my processing was about, have I done enough? Is there one more thing I could try? Because and and maybe part of that is because I knew people could ask that. Like, well, did you try this? Did you try this? So and I am someone who likes solving problems, and I am someone who likes to fix things. And maybe that's how I got into this relationship in the first place. But, you know, seeing things in me that, things that I needed, and then also things that I thought I could help him with. But, but, regardless, I think in that in that time, trying to figure out what was the right next step. It was it was really a lot more about convincing myself that I could do it and that I would be okay and that he would be okay because I was also just as worried about him, as I was myself in terms of the aftermath.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:20:06]:
What were you scared of about the aftermath?
Sarah Marshall [00:20:11]:
So we were pretty codependent. And so a lot of what I was worried about was what it would be like if we weren't relying on each other for everything. I had given away a lot of my self agency through the relationship and kind of convinced Self of so much that I thought I couldn't do by myself. And I'm talking, you know, kinda basic everyday things, like, reliably paying my credit card bill, taking my car to get an oil change, changing a light bulb in the house. And it's not to say that I didn't think I could do those things. It's just that where we ended up in the relationship, everything what had to be something we did together and was something that we, like, talked about and coordinated our schedules for to the point where if it didn't work for him, I felt like I was asking too much. And so helping myself know, actually, like, you can just go to Home Depot and bring the old fluorescent light bulb and just find the new fluorescent light bulb and put it in the house. And it's actually, like, not that hard, and you don't have to overthink it.
Sarah Marshall [00:21:33]:
Like, that's such a small example, but I think it's an example of something that was, like, a a little baby step forward. And, okay, if I can do that kind of thing, then I can do bigger things.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:21:49]:
Mhmm. You had to, like, slowly build evidence that you could rely on yourself. That's right. I mean, like you said, you spent your whole adult life with this person, so you shaped your identity around being together. And so it's a big league to be like, okay, what's my identity when I'm on my own?
Sarah Marshall [00:22:10]:
That's right.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:22:13]:
So interesting. And was what else would you say was hard in making that decision? So knowing you could trusting that you could rely on yourself, was there anything else? Trusting that he would be okay, that you would be okay? Really? Or these are the the the main obstacle I
Sarah Marshall [00:22:40]:
would say those were the main ones, and, Josh, feel free to chime in if there's, you know, something I've already blocked out from the experience. But I would say the other hard thing, in particular, in my case, was once, we made the decision to, separate, I still had to stay in the house, for, I don't know what the right word is. Insurance purposes or something. So, so then it was living with someone who, you know, decided to no longer be in a relationship, but you're now still in a relationship because you are sharing living space. We had a dog. He still has the dog, and a house. So it was like becoming roommates and kind of grieving the relationship while you're still in the relationship and trying to figure out who I was on my own while I'm still sharing space with this person who has known me as a very particular version of Self.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:23:51]:
Mhmm.
Sarah Marshall [00:23:52]:
And showing up to work every day in this transition period where I'm starting to want to figure out what my identity is as this adult single person. And sometimes not even knowing how to show up in that space. I think that was that's an actually kind of a current thing that I'm working through now that I actually am divorced. I will show up somewhere and think, oh, I'm single now. And I am not actually interested in a relationship at all, to be honest. But when I am somewhere and I no longer have a ring on my finger, I am thinking internally about, you know, how is me showing up as this person impacting the people around me? Because, you know, as a recovering perfectionist and people pleaser, I'm still highly aware of how other people are receiving me.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:24:49]:
And can you give an example?
Sarah Marshall [00:24:52]:
Oh, absolutely. I recently had to go to physical therapy for, the tennis elbow that I got while I was moving boxes by myself.
Jessica Velez [00:25:00]:
So I did it and I
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:25:03]:
Good job.
Sarah Marshall [00:25:05]:
Yeah. And when I was there, you know, I'm, like, making friends with the people. I'm very social. I'm hanging out with my physical therapist, and we're making jokes. And in my head, there's a part of my brain that's going like, oh, am I flirting? Do they think I'm flirting? And, no, I'm just being a kind, you know, funny, inter like, social person. But my brain is starting to tell me all these possible stories about, well, you gotta be careful here because this person might misread this, you know. You don't have the safety of the ring anymore. You know, you don't have any kind of, like, excuse or alibi of, oh, well, I'm in a relationship.
Sarah Marshall [00:25:47]:
So, you know, this this can only be platonic.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:25:53]:
Mhmm. You're learning it's like you're wearing new hiking boots. You've worn, like, the old hiking boots for a while, now you're wearing the new ones and like seeing what you can do with them and how you can, playing around with this new identity.
Sarah Marshall [00:26:08]:
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jessica Velez [00:26:09]:
Does anyone see my new boots? Do they see how good I look in my boots? Are people checking out my boots? Exactly. Do they do they roll the top coat? Line on my hand. Do they see what used to be
Sarah Marshall [00:26:20]:
there is no longer there?
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:26:24]:
You're the master of analogies, Jess. What what what about you, Jess? What was it like moving to a different country away from everyone that you knew? I'm guessing you also stepped into stepped into a a new identity.
Jessica Velez [00:26:44]:
Yeah. I did. Although, it took a little while, because moving during COVID, like, towards the end of, like and and Hawaii was in lockdown and had restrictions, like, a lot longer. And so, by the time I got here, it's not like and no one was in lockdown, but it was still, like, not a big socialization effort for anyone. And because I work from home and was working remotely, it took a minute for me to meet anyone. But I got to figure out who I was before I met anyone, which is pretty cool. And having that space to and in all of this, as both of you know, I learned that I am gluten intolerant. And I had, like, a very silly crisis over that.
Jessica Velez [00:27:28]:
That let's not call it silly. It it was what it was at the time. Now it's kind of funny. But, like, I kept saying, like, I don't like, who am I if I don't just go grab a pizza and beer with people? Like, I don't know who am I still struggle when I go to a bar and it's like, what do you want? And I'm like, I don't know.
Sarah Marshall [00:27:44]:
Like, I know that I used to order, and now I don't know what I order because I don't wanna have wine right now and going right into a liquor or something. And should
Jessica Velez [00:27:51]:
I just get a soda? Because soda's fine too. I love soda. So it's like I'm still a little struggling. But, I do remember I was on Bumble BFF trying to make friends. And I went out with, I met a girl. We went for coffee, and we were out for, like, a long time. It was so delightful. She was so great.
Jessica Velez [00:28:09]:
She's actually one of my best friends on the island right now. And I remember coming back from it and being, like, oh my god. I showed up as myself there. Like, I just remember being like, I I showed up as new me and she didn't know anything about me before And I didn't make excuses for stuff because what do I have like, I didn't know her. Like, what do I have to people believe in this context about how long I'll be here or whatever. I just remember I took such a big risk. I came back and I was almost, like, like, shaking a little. Like, oh god.
Jessica Velez [00:28:40]:
Like, that was, like, that was really just me, who I think I am now, and it was, like, really a significant moment. And, like, I can't even tell you what I said that was different or how I showed up. I just remembered when I came back, you know, you do that little replay, and I was just, like, woah. I think that I think that I showed up as this me.
Sarah Marshall [00:29:04]:
Wow.
Jessica Velez [00:29:05]:
And that was really, it was really cool.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:29:08]:
So it's challenging sometimes when you're surrounded by people who've known you for a long time. They they mirror, like, an old version of you back to you, so it can be harder to just own the person that you are becoming. That's why, you know, it can be helpful when you're with new people or when you're in a Growth, like, you are just in Brave and Bold with other people who are trying to become like, the next version of themselves, like the most courageous version of themselves, because then you can you you there there is
Jessica Velez [00:29:39]:
no longer this reflection of who you used to be. So it gives you, like, a space to play and explore, who am I now? Yeah. I was just talking to a friend from back home yesterday, and we were talking about this exact issue. And she, I will absolutely credit her with this phrase she was saying, I just want that part of me to be stricken from the record. Like, I just would like to be like, I said that once. Like, I used to be, like, whatever, into hiking, and I'm not this is not my hiking era. I would like it to be stricken from the record. I know we were laughing about it, but it's so true because, like, there are it's really hard to change how someone, you know, even just something silly like that like a bunch of hobbies.
Jessica Velez [00:30:22]:
It's like, I'm not in my hiking era right now. I'm in my music era.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:30:25]:
Mhmm.
Jessica Velez [00:30:26]:
Like, I would rather be playing my ukulele than, taking 8 hours and nearly dying on the ridge of Allemanu where people are constantly being rescued. It's like the different I think it's a different game here, and I'm not sure I wanna play. Oh, yeah. So it was just an interesting, her phrase. But, yeah, it's, like, hard because you actually just like you can't actually strike anything from a record. People are always gonna remember what they remember, but it wouldn't it be nice if it was just like, I'm not into that anymore.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:30:56]:
And that's okay. And that's okay. We judge ourselves so harshly for changing. That's so funny. And like the what you shared about becoming, discovering you were gluten intolerant, it's intolerant, right? Right? Yeah. I remember that phase where it's like, well, you're there being like, actually I have more needs than I used to. Oh, that too. And, you know, I'm no longer and I speak for you, but I speak for me, and for Sara as Self, when you start owning what you want, you you're no longer like the cool, quiet, low maintenance kinda girl.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:31:41]:
Mhmm. You're like, here, I'm here, I have needs, I deserve to feel good, And this is what
Jessica Velez [00:31:47]:
send back this order because it will make me sick.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:31:50]:
Yeah.
Jessica Velez [00:31:50]:
I know. I don't know that I've ever done that in my life before having an allergy. That's like, I'm sorry. You need to take this because I can't the the the dressing on it clearly has, you know, like, whatever the thing is, it's like yeah. And you have to own having that Nerds. And or, like, you meet a bunch of new people and they're all talking about where they wanna meet up for something and you're like, I can't go there because there's nothing I can eat. Or could we not go to the brewery? Could we go to, like, just a regular bar? Could we go to the, you know, like, I have to assert myself in a way I never had to before. And,
Sarah Marshall [00:32:27]:
it's like it's
Jessica Velez [00:32:29]:
I wouldn't say it's scary, but it's different because you don't wanna feel like that high maintenance person. But at the same time, like, your health is the most important thing. It's not like you get an option. Mhmm.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:32:43]:
At first, it feels like, oh, I'm being difficult, but actually it's just, no, I'm I'm just taking care of myself and that is okay. It's just feels uncomfortable because we have not been used to it.
Jessica Velez [00:32:54]:
Yeah. And you know people's reaction is not ever oh my god. Seriously, Jess? Like, seriously, we can't go there? They're always like, thanks so much for telling me. What is gluten? Where can you go? Is it flour? Is it wheat? Can you drink some beer? It's always concern and interest, and I give people a large education on gluten, what it is and where it comes from. But people are never no one's ever like, oh, please don't invite her again. Actually, normally, the next time they're like, hey, Jess, would this place work for you? It's like, oh, people are just as nice as I am. I don't know why we don't give them credit for being
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:33:30]:
And if they were not, it's like, oh, great. Thanks for showing me that you're not someone I want to hang out with.
Jessica Velez [00:33:37]:
And right off the bat, so I don't waste any time. Exactly.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:33:41]:
What about you, Sara? In what ways have you had to assert Self, like Jess was saying, assert yourself more? And and I I we talked about your shark era.
Sarah Marshall [00:33:53]:
Right. That's right. I went, my coworkers called it, Fatsy Summer Thero, left oh, left summer. Say that again? Fatsy Summer Thero. I was like, yes. I guess so. So, you know, I've seen this meme around the Internet a lot, which is, like, when when people pleasers start asking for what they need, they think they've turned into, you know, a monster or whatever, but, they're just being normal humans when finally speaking up for themselves. I'm totally butchering that, but I know you both know what I'm talking about.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:34:39]:
No. No. Yeah. We know.
Sarah Marshall [00:34:42]:
Yeah. And, that's definitely what it felt like. I'm trying to think of a example, but it would just be, oh, Jeff. I have an example. Just as an example. Where's your mind?
Jessica Velez [00:34:59]:
You you went to a, music festival. Oh, yeah. I did.
Sarah Marshall [00:35:07]:
Fire out. Fire out. Yeah. Okay. So so I'm pausing because I'm thinking about, like, well, is that really a need? So, you know, we we can figure that out later. But in my my former marine of myself that I would like to strike from the record, I hate, was under the impression that I couldn't do some things by myself. And this came from a history of being, like, the baby daughter and, you know, kind of like like the one that needed to be protected and, like, oh, careful. You know, so I was like, I I was and still am fairly risk averse.
Sarah Marshall [00:35:57]:
And in my marriage, like, that continued because, my partner was happy to, you know, support me in things and go with me to things. And that eventually kinda manifested to worrying about things for me and worrying about things that maybe I wasn't worried about. Jess and I wanted to go, paddle boarding one time, like, an hour away from where we live, maybe hour and a half. And, my partner was worried about the traffic and thought, you know, gosh. I don't I really don't think you all should go. Is there gonna be a lot of traffic? Like, he just poured on all of these worries that I didn't have. And, and, you know, that was that was a year prior to us separating. But, and at the time, I was just starting to practice being able to say, like, actually, I think I can handle this.
Sarah Marshall [00:36:54]:
So what Jess is referring to is, last summer, the summer after we had separated, I was supposed to go to a concert at a 2 day festival in Virginia with a friend of mine, and she ended up not being able to go. And, old me probably would have really considered not going because, because I I can't drive more hours by Self, and I can't go get into an Airbnb, by Self, and I can't go show up to a concert venue with thousands of people, by myself and and navigate all of that. And I you know, kind of going back to some of the things we talked about in coaching. Like, sure. Those stories were helping protect me from taking a risk and getting hurt maybe, but those stories were also preventing me from living and really enjoying and participating in life. So I ended up doing all of those things, including driving back at, like, midnight on and calling Jess because of the time difference.
Jessica Velez [00:38:06]:
I would be able to be like, will you keep me awake while I drive home?
Sarah Marshall [00:38:10]:
But what was so great about that whole trip is that it was, like, more evidence of, no. I can do this, like, every step of the way. Okay. I I did the 4 hour drive. Oh, I can do this. I, you know, got into the Airbnb. Oh, I can do this. I walked through the close like, the nearby college campus to get, dinner by myself.
Sarah Marshall [00:38:30]:
You know? Oh, I can do this. Like like I said, I was living in a very do always with someone all the time environment. And so to just do basic things by myself was a huge deal. And, so each step of the way was just another little bit of evidence of, I can do that. I can do that.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:38:54]:
I'm, I'm just nodding my head like crazy here. I might, like, dislocate my neck if that's
Jessica Velez [00:39:01]:
that's probably not a thing. It's hard.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:39:07]:
I love this idea of the stories that used to keep you from living. Like, they were they would protect you, but they would keep you from living. So you went from, I can't do this on my own, and rewiring that story to become, no actually I can do this on my own, watch me, I'm a badass. What are the other stories for both of you that used to keep you from living that you had to rewire?
Sarah Marshall [00:39:44]:
How much time do we have? I I'll, I'll give Jeff some time to think, and I will mention some of the ones that I have, and then we'll go from there. Alright. Number 1. I don't have to make myself smaller in order to keep other people happy.
Jessica Velez [00:40:08]:
Mhmm.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:40:08]:
Yeah. I mean, that goes with the Jess' gluten story. I don't so what's one way like, one example of how you made yourself smaller to keep people happy?
Sarah Marshall [00:40:21]:
So I have a a big change that I have been working through is being willing to deal with other people's discomfort based on a decision that I make. And I used to really struggle with that. I had a hard time with negative emotions in general from anyone and very good at accommodating other people and figuring out and anticipating their needs and making that happen so that they were happy. And it didn't matter if, like, Jess was saying with her allergy, didn't matter if somebody actually would have replied, oh, yeah. Of course, we can do that. I had just really convinced myself that it would be such a burden to them if I asked for the thing that I needed. And, unfortunately, part of the reason I felt that way is because that had been reinforced by some people in my life. Where, you know, and your advice that I would really like to go get breakfast before we go on this hike because I'm not going to have the energy to do that.
Sarah Marshall [00:41:41]:
And then I end up at the foot of that hill being told it's time to hike. Come on, champ. You can do this. Even though I have not been fed, I'm That is an example of me, you know, accommodating and being really unhappy about it.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:42:00]:
Mhmm. Yeah. And then we what often happens in those times is we blame other people, but actually it's us that didn't have the the the courage in that moment to advocate for for our needs. And we end up frustrated, sometimes at others, but really we're frustrated at ourselves for not saying not no. This is what I need. And and and I my needs deserve to be met.
Sarah Marshall [00:42:29]:
Yeah. And I think, unfortunately, for some people, including me, there's a point at which you feel like you have advocated in all the ways that you can, and you just tire yourself out. And it just becomes, like, easier. It's not really easier, but it you start to think it's easier to stay small, to stop advocating. And that was a big mind switch that I had to make with that. No. Actually, it's really worth it to keep speaking up or to put yourself in a new place where you no longer have to speak up in that scenario because that scenario doesn't exist.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:43:11]:
Yes. Exactly. That gives me shivers. Like, if you have because sometimes you have, like you said, advocated for your needs, but you're in an environment where the people don't listen.
Sarah Marshall [00:43:22]:
Yeah.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:43:22]:
And that, taking care of yourself in such a situation is being like, well let me leave.
Jessica Velez [00:43:28]:
Mhmm.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:43:28]:
This is not good for me.
Sarah Marshall [00:43:30]:
That's right.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:43:31]:
And I deserve to be surrounded by people who care.
Jessica Velez [00:43:34]:
That's
Sarah Marshall [00:43:34]:
right. My needs are not an inconvenience to others. I am not too much. And if I'm treated that way, in this environment, I can go somewhere else.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:43:46]:
Mic drop. Yeah. There will be people, that's the new story. There will be people who will be more than happy to meet my needs. If it's not you, that's that's alright. Let me let me find these people.
Sarah Marshall [00:44:01]:
That's right. And in some cases, you find that that person that's gonna meet your needs is you.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:44:08]:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But when you know how to meet your needs, you're more likely to attract other people who want to help you with that.
Sarah Marshall [00:44:17]:
That's right. Right. Yeah. I, my friend just posted a a poem. I'll I'll find it. Maybe we can put it in the show notes. And it was something really beautiful that's like, be yourself so that the people who are looking for you can find you. Yes.
Sarah Marshall [00:44:36]:
And I loved that.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:44:38]:
Yes. To me, that that's my recipe for finding the partner that I have now. He's like the partner of my dreams, and to me that's because I got to know myself so deeply, and then I in in my in the dating app, my profile was so specific to what I wanted, like, you have to be willing to repel some, most people in order to attract the people that are for you. But in order to be this way, you can't be afraid of rejection constantly. You have to want rejection in order to get my belonging with the the people that are going to be not just the people, but the jobs also that are gonna be most aligned with you. What about oh, go ahead, Sarah.
Sarah Marshall [00:45:23]:
I just wanted to attribute this quote. So it's, poetry by Alex Aubrey, and it says, be yourself so the people looking for you can find you.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:45:33]:
Sweet. I love it. What about you, Jess? What are the stories that you had to rewire the stories that were keeping you from fully living?
Jessica Velez [00:45:48]:
I think the one that we that you just discussed, like, a 100%. And I think on the other side of needs, the story was, like, like, I can't be I can't be I can't attract too much attention, I guess, would be the story. Like, it's safer when you don't attract attention, maybe is the story that was, like, kind of what. It's safer if you don't attract attention. And like, the ways that show up are like hilarious to me. Like, driving my moped makes a lot of noise in the neighborhood. People are gonna look at the bike I have right now, the wheels the brakes have gotten changed and they squeak. And I'm like, oh god.
Jessica Velez [00:46:40]:
So I
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:46:40]:
guess, the the universe wants you to move around and practice being like, look at me.
Jessica Velez [00:46:45]:
It's Taking up space. Yeah. Taking up some space. Like, when I think about, like, making music, which is the thing that's so important to me and I love doing for me. Right? Like, I don't, like, make I play music in the terms of play, like, in a sandbox. And, people hear you when you play. Do you suck out loud. Right? So, or just, like, when I think, about clothes that I wear.
Jessica Velez [00:47:13]:
And it's like, there have been I've been getting there are so many nights where I put on something that's so cute. I got these big linen pants and they because they're high waisted and they're big. And they're not, like, clothes I normally wear, but I love them. And for a long time, every time I put them on, I was like, wow, you look awesome. Those are super cool. And then I put on jeans and a black t shirt and I go out to dinner. It was just like because people will see me. Those pants attract attention.
Jessica Velez [00:47:47]:
Attention's not safe for whatever reason. And so that's a story that really prevents me from I mean, just those four examples of doing things that I like doing. Mhmm. And it's been, yeah, it's been interesting. And I think that's, like, in a really just, like, day to day way. But when you think about, like, decisions you might make or choices and how people might see them, like, that if I don't ride my moped because it makes noise or if I can't, you know, ride my bike because it squeaks, like, that can that's so small compared to big things that might happen in my life and choices I might wanna make. So that's a story I'm still, like, half subscribed to. Like, I know
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:48:31]:
it differently
Jessica Velez [00:48:32]:
when I haven't quite worn I did wear the pants this past weekend. So actually, I am making progress. And I wore them to an art museum because I was like, everyone will be wearing fun things and I will not stick out there in these big pants. I will belong.
Sarah Marshall [00:48:48]:
For me. So I subscribed a
Jessica Velez [00:48:50]:
little bit to Lucidore, but I did the thing, and so I got at least, like, half credit.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:48:55]:
I mean, you're slowly but surely rewiring that story in your mind. What's like if you think about past jest and present jest, what's something that you do now that feels normal? That like, one way that you take up space that would have felt, super scary for you a few years ago?
Jessica Velez [00:49:23]:
I I play I play my I play my ukulele just all the time. Like, I'll do it in the backyard. I'll do it. And in Hawaii, like, people are close. Like, the houses are close. Like, we have a neighbor who who practices, like, a trumpet or something that we hear him practicing. So it's like, I know I know people here. And so, like but I do I've like, I I used to be, like, let me close the door or let me go in the garage or, I have a keyboard.
Jessica Velez [00:49:52]:
So it's, like, let me put the headphones on and only I can hear it. And, it's like in between meetings. I'll just pick it up and play it and sing. I'll sing to it too.
Sarah Marshall [00:50:01]:
Oh, wow. Yeah.
Jessica Velez [00:50:03]:
But part of it is, like, no one knows what house that's coming from. The music free? To the beach yet, if I bring it to the beach, then
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:50:15]:
You're like the mysterious sound angel.
Jessica Velez [00:50:19]:
I like that. You should like that. Yeah. I am. Mysterious music angel. But, yeah, I would say that's probably one of them. And another one which is a bit different is, I, I really live into what I call my Jersey chess because I'm from New Jersey, and I've got a bit of sass on me. Who? I'm a bit sarcastic.
Jessica Velez [00:50:42]:
I'm a bit, like, rough I mean, when I go home, it's all relative. Right? When I go home, it's like, no. She's not tough or, like, rough around the edges or, like, sassy. Like, she's so mild. But when I'm here in Hawaii where people are really kind and soft and I don't wanna say genuine, like, I'm not genuine, but I'm sarcastic way more like, I am way more likely to make a joke than I am to like, to be nice. I don't know how to Yeah.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:51:12]:
No. I don't understand completely what you mean.
Jessica Velez [00:51:15]:
Okay. Great. Because, like so when I first got here, I started making friends. It was, like, kind of tiring to, like, censor that part of myself to be, like, have every conversation be so pure and sweet and nice. Because I'm, like, I have 45 jokes lined up, and they're not all nice jokes, but, like, they're about me. So I think it's like, I like to poke fun at what's happening with the world. Like, I like to make a comment or 2, and I have really embraced Jersey just lately. I think partially because of the people who are I'm surrounded by.
Jessica Velez [00:51:51]:
Right? Like, they find her interesting and funny. And because I am because, you know, they know me well enough to know that what I'm doing is like like I say, sometimes a joke's a joke. Like, sometimes I just need to be a comedian for a minute. Like, it doesn't make me any less deep or any less caring. But when I first got here, definitely was like, how do I fit in here? Like, how do I be the person that fits in here? And now I'm like, it's too exhausting to not be that part of me. And so right off the bat, I'm gonna tell a couple jokes and see how it goes. Like you're saying, right? Like put it right on the profile. I put it right on the profile.
Jessica Velez [00:52:33]:
Like I don't take things too seriously.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:52:35]:
So the before story is kind of like, I need to figure out how to fit in, and the new story is it's just safe to be me.
Jessica Velez [00:52:45]:
Yeah. And when you said, like, yeah, you have to accept rejection and I agree. And also you could say instead of that, like, I just have to it's just a test. It's just information. They're not rejecting me or just it was just information about whether or not this was, like, a match. Exactly. Dating dating friends is just like dating romantically. Right? You're still just looking for people who fit into your life and make it bigger and better.
Jessica Velez [00:53:12]:
So
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:53:13]:
Yeah. And if someone doesn't wanna be your friend, it's it's not rejection. It's your whole Information? It's information. It's like, oh, okay. Well, great. Like, I'm sending you love. Hope you find the friends for you. I'll keep looking for people that match me, and it's all good.
Jessica Velez [00:53:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. And also, like, you know, we can be a friend who goes to a yoga class, but maybe we're not a friend who, like, has a sleepover and we talk all night. Exactly.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:53:42]:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So you've both given us so many examples of the the ways in which you have grown over the last few years, and what's helped you make, big jumps that are in alignment with your values, that are creating a more fulfilling life for you. Now I wanna hear from you about the, how has coaching helped you on this journey? How is it useful for you to work with me on this, transformation this path of transformation? Let's start with you, Sarah. Sure.
Sarah Marshall [00:54:25]:
So, I want I wanna tell the story about how your you helped me before we even knew each other. Oh. So back in April of 2023, that is when I was feeling like I needed, I needed some separation. I needed some space for my partner so that I could think with a clear head about whether or not we could repair, whether or not I wanted to move forward. And I had just decided I just, like, actually asked for and got confirmation of the fact that we would have us actually start a separation on about April 21st, I would say. And then April 24th, you posted a podcast episode called The Decision to Break Up, episode 115. And I don't think it was that day that when Jess
Jessica Velez [00:55:33]:
sent it
Sarah Marshall [00:55:33]:
to me, I think it could have been, I don't know, 2 weeks after that. But she was just like, hey. This is something that my coach just put out, and I think that it might offer some clarification and things for you to think about. And that was such a helpful episode because there were so many things that you included in that about just, like, consideration. Like, are you looking for the same thing? What do you want in a partner? And I really took that seriously, took it to heart, and started journaling about all of the things that you talked about in that episode. So transitioning into, you know, how you've helped me as a coach, you ask a couple questions and push us to think through what life could be.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:56:34]:
Can you say that again? Because the center the Internet connection was a little bit unstable.
Sarah Marshall [00:56:40]:
Yeah. I totally can. You asked incredible questions that help us to push through and think through what could life be like. What is the life that I actually want for myself? What am I putting in my way? What are the stories I'm telling myself that are getting in the way of that life that I actually could have. And what steps could I take to actually get there?
Jessica Velez [00:57:10]:
I am can be
Sarah Marshall [00:57:10]:
a bit dramatic, and I would join our coaching call. I'm ready to tell you the story, ready to entertain you. You know, Jocelyn's talking about her sarcasm. I love sarcasm. I think I could have been a stand up comedian in another life because I like to entertain people and make them laugh. And I and I'm happy to do it at my expense. And I would come, you know, to our sessions ready to give you a laugh. And you would you would help me take that story I was telling myself and pull it apart and really reflect on how can we look at this in a more neutral and objective way that is maybe less funny, but it's going to serve you better.
Sarah Marshall [00:58:00]:
And so that was huge. And then also just like the accountability of seeing you, you know, I started out in your courage to start new group session, and then that was fantastic. And then we moved to, 1 on 1 coaching. And so the accountability of that has has been really helpful for me because, like, I know that I wanted to move forward with this life transition. I already made that decision when I started, actually working with you. And then I felt like our sessions helped me helped me, like, keep my eye on Verizon. You know? Like, it was a tough time, and it was a very emotionally written time. And, you know, going through a divorce is very exhausting, at least it was for me.
Sarah Marshall [00:58:56]:
And I think you helped me to kinda see that there was a light at the, you know, end of the road. There was a a rainbow, that I was gonna be finding at at the end of that storm.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:59:11]:
That is worth the struggle.
Jessica Velez [00:59:13]:
Mhmm. And so
Sarah Marshall [00:59:14]:
you helped me keep the momentum going,
Jessica Velez [00:59:16]:
which was awesome.
Sarah Marshall [00:59:19]:
And the other thing about, like, your technique in particular is that you are a doodler and you draw things. And I really love those drawings because they connect the brain science and some of the concepts that you bring into your programs that really helps stick in my brain. And so, your care bear continues to be one of my favorite things, and you can talk about that on another episode or whatever. But, there are so many the things that you taught that, like, has stuck with me because of the way that you visualize them and explain them.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:59:59]:
See, Hainan. That's so cool. Thanks for sharing all of that. A few thoughts that I wanna share is, number 1, that episode about breaking up is responsible for so many separations. I'm pretty
Jessica Velez [01:00:13]:
sure you're doing that.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:00:13]:
From people I don't even know. I have strangers messaging me on Instagram. Oh, I listened to your Podcast, podcast, and now I know that I want to leave. I'm there. I'm glad that you found what your truth in the midst of all that. And yeah, what you say about de dramatizing the stories, because often when we come up with all these stories it's like, this is the bad person, this is the victim, this is to make it, you know, entertaining. But at the end of the day, it keeps us from seeing reality, from seeing reality for what it is, and making decisions that are well informed. We're all up in our emotions instead of being grounded in our values.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:01:00]:
Right? What's important to you and what are you gonna do based on that is going to lead you to create something that's much more sustainable long term, than if you're always, up in your mind drama, telling stories.
Sarah Marshall [01:01:12]:
Yeah. And I've I've been known to live out of my mind drama. I mean,
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:01:16]:
it's fun. We've gotta be able to do both. It's fun to have a rant sometimes, and then we've gotta, okay, get back down, put our feet on the ground, and Mhmm. And move forward. Thanks for sharing, Sarah.
Sarah Marshall [01:01:32]:
Welcome.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:01:33]:
What about you, Jess?
Jessica Velez [01:01:36]:
I'll I would say the most I mean, one, I loved being in the group
Sarah Marshall [01:01:43]:
of other
Jessica Velez [01:01:43]:
people who were doing something different. Like, that was just, on a base level, just felt really and I think was part of the reason why I could start showing up new because those people didn't know me. And so then I would realize the same thing was happening here. So that was huge in just creating a space for me to play with who I was. But your your coaching, I would say it was the your your loving and thoughtful attacks. Hold on. Hold on. My ways of thinking.
Jessica Velez [01:02:15]:
I I read that with the most love because I love to be attacked. I love when someone sees something so clearly that you're like, wow. Like, just talking about, like, when I come when I was having my my sad, sob story about no longer eating pizza and beer And, just the way that you like, you would hold up a mirror to say, like, that could be the story. But also, what else is the story? Very similar to what Sarah was saying. But, like, your, your ability to see through to see through, like, I guess the drama or the humor or the, BS. The lens we have on it and call out just, like, what it is at its core Mhmm. Is really helpful because when you ruminate on something, having someone just say, like, I see you spinning. If you stop spinning for a minute, you might see this piece.
Jessica Velez [01:03:13]:
And if you stop spinning over here, you might see it like this. And, that was it was just always really helpful to come in and be like I would be so sure. Right? Kinda like what you were saying, Sarah. Like, you'd be so sure. Like, this is unsolvable or that this is, this is so unique. That was the other thing about group coaching. You think you're so unique, but we all are humans with the exact same problems. Right? Like, there's nothing different about us.
Jessica Velez [01:03:41]:
We all just wanna be loved and accepted and feel safe. And you're like, no. My issue is so different than that person who's deciding if they're gonna blah blah blah. And you're like, oh my god. It's exactly the same.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:03:54]:
That's what
Jessica Velez [01:03:55]:
it is. So just like yeah. Bringing it to its core, I guess. Right?
Sarah Marshall [01:03:59]:
You're bringing it down to
Jessica Velez [01:04:00]:
its core. And so you know you're like, oh, it's not about pizza and beer. It's about I have needs I now have to express in front of people and what will that mean? And, yeah.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:04:12]:
Go ahead, Sarah.
Sarah Marshall [01:04:14]:
Okay. So just quick, funny story about my experience in the group coaching is, you know, I would tell myself all these stories about why I couldn't do something. Right? Like, that's too hard. That's gonna be too much trouble. It's gonna inconvenience someone else. Blah blah blah blah blah. And then I would watch someone else basically express those same why they all those limitations on a call,
Jessica Velez [01:04:39]:
and I'd be like, are you
Sarah Marshall [01:04:41]:
kidding me? You can do that thing. Why are you any any of that either? No way. And I was just so funny because I would be like,
Jessica Velez [01:04:50]:
oh,
Sarah Marshall [01:04:52]:
yeah. I probably I I probably people everyone else is saying the same thing to me when I'm going on my story about how that's too hard and I can't
Jessica Velez [01:05:01]:
do it and I'm
Sarah Marshall [01:05:01]:
not sure. And, Yeah. So that is one of the things that coaching was. The group coaching, especially, that was really cool to, like, reflect on how you're letting your own ego get in the way when you watch it happen to other people. Or, you you know, maybe it's not your ego, but you're different.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:05:18]:
Yeah. I remember, Flo in the in the group saying at one point, this is not what I wanted to hear, but this is what I needed to hear.
Jessica Velez [01:05:31]:
Yes. A well delivered attack.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:05:36]:
Because sometimes, I mean, when we're with friends, like, it's our friend's job to complain with us, to be like, you're right, it's hard, and it freaking sucks. But then it's your coach's job to be like, yeah, yeah, it's harder than it sucks, and now what? Like, you you have more power and more resources than you think you can.
Jessica Velez [01:05:56]:
So Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you do that job well.
Sarah Marshall [01:06:00]:
Yeah. You do. And if you go back in my text with Jeff, you will see many a time when one of us is saying, you know, Marie really gave me she's really rude today, and rude as our, like, phrase.
Jessica Velez [01:06:14]:
That's what we would say. Yeah. Because, like, she was we would, like, report on something. You'd be like, wasn't that rude? Like, yeah, super rude. But, like, what you gonna do with it now?
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:06:30]:
Oh, that's so true. Thanks for your
Jessica Velez [01:06:33]:
highest compliment. Say how rude you are.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:06:37]:
Say that again, sir. That it's one
Jessica Velez [01:06:39]:
of our highest compliments to call you rude. It's our way of saying, like, she really pushed us into thinking about something in
Sarah Marshall [01:06:48]:
the way that we really needed to
Jessica Velez [01:06:49]:
Yeah. About it.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:06:52]:
I have to remind myself after those kinds of coaching calls, like, my job is not for for to be loved. It's to help them grow past their limitations. So it's okay if they don't like me for a few days.
Sarah Marshall [01:07:05]:
Oh, no. We like it.
Jessica Velez [01:07:07]:
We like you a lot. Yeah. I can reassure you that you are loved and rude.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:07:14]:
Thank you. The coach also feels also sometimes has moments where they're like, oh, no. Was I too hard? Okay, thank you both so much. Before we go, I would love to hear if you have any book recommendations for all the self growth nerds listening, anything that you've read, or maybe a podcast that you listened to recently that was thought provoking, that you could share?
Jessica Velez [01:07:47]:
Mostly, I have to read a lot of textbooks right now, so my fun reading is at a minimum. But on my last break, I just read, I think it's like The History of Feminism in 11 Fights. I think it's the title is something like that, and I might have to get back to you on exactly the title. But, it's broken down and there's I think it's 11, and it's, like, about play. We talk about, like, the soccer teams, and it's about, the vote and about, suffragettes. And so you break it down into, like, 11 categories, and they tell the story of the fight. Like, divorce, they tell the story of, like, the first woman who's tried to get a divorce. And, it was really I mean, I had to do it in small sips, but it was really great.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:08:32]:
Mhmm. And very much in alignment with your work, Jess works in conflict revolution, resolution.
Jessica Velez [01:08:37]:
I do. Yeah. Love that. Good fights. Right? Good good fights to get to something better.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:08:43]:
Mhmm. Yeah. What about you, Sarah?
Sarah Marshall [01:08:49]:
So I have feel like I have not been in a I have not been, like, in a place to receive new information lately, but so
Jessica Velez [01:09:00]:
I went back in my Goodreads
Sarah Marshall [01:09:02]:
and looked for one that I had, read while I was going through all of this. So I'm gonna recommend, Young Pueblos, Leiter. Let go of the past, connect with the present, and expand the future.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:09:15]:
Love that. I read that one. Really good. And it's okay not to be, you've got to own that right now you might not be in like a personal growth reading era. Like, Jess is no longer in a hiking era. You're in, what what era are you in, Sarah, currently?
Sarah Marshall [01:09:41]:
It was not a pause for dramatic effect. I had
Jessica Velez [01:09:43]:
not considered this at all.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:09:45]:
Should I should I, like, sing a little elevator waiting song? Yeah. Oh, that's baby shark.
Sarah Marshall [01:09:53]:
That's not I was in my oh, yeah. Well, I was in my shark era.
Jessica Velez [01:09:58]:
It was probably in the middle.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:09:59]:
That's the unconscious yeah.
Sarah Marshall [01:10:01]:
I was in my sloth era because we decided that after sharking for a while, I was tired and I just wanted to take a nap. I think I'm I kinda feel like I may be in, like, a, a blossoming. Love it. Like, I yeah. Like, I, I'm gonna have a conversation later this week about thinking about if I wanna go back to school to get a doctorate in education. Sweet. You
Jessica Velez [01:10:32]:
too. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall [01:10:33]:
And I just, said yes to serving on a a leadership board. So I feel like I'm in, like, a thing thing yes to the things I wanna say yes to and saying no to the things that I wanna say no to era.
Jessica Velez [01:10:50]:
What's that called? Boundaries? I'm in my Boundary era.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:10:54]:
Well, it will come up with a catchy name. Yeah.
Sarah Marshall [01:10:58]:
Sounds good.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:10:59]:
What about you, Jess? What era are you in?
Jessica Velez [01:11:07]:
I'm in my reliving my twenties era.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:11:12]:
I have meaning?
Jessica Velez [01:11:17]:
You're a bit irresponsible as far as that's possible for me. I staying out a little late, maybe making some mistakes, like turning in an assignment late. Maybe. Maybe it all just maybe I'm just, a little I'm just really on my toes. Just like, you know what? You may you drink a little too much sometimes. You, you express yourself. You put fun before work sometimes. And, like, I mean that, like, the most, unfortunately.
Jessica Velez [01:11:47]:
I mean that in such a, light, light way because I am an adult who had a lot of responsibilities. But as far as as far as I can, you know what mistakes happen. They're possible. And I probably need to make a couple more of them before it becomes consequential. So that's I'm just gonna relive my twenties a bit.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:12:08]:
Back in your twenties. And Sara Sara, you're, blossoming and boundaried.
Sarah Marshall [01:12:17]:
That's great.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:12:20]:
Alright. Thank you so much to you both for coming on a podcast. This was such a fun chat. And I already look forward to seeing you again.
Jessica Velez [01:12:34]:
Like, great. Throbbing notes. This is so fun. Especially being just a bit away from it to reflect. Thanks for that too.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:12:42]:
Okay. That's it for today. Weren't they wonderful? I love them so much. Now right after we stopped recording, Jess was telling me about an online course she created with her business partner all about conflict resolution. Jess is a trained conflict resolution expert and she believes that these skills to communicate with others kindly, courageously, and with curiosity are super important when you're going through a big change in your life that's going to impact those around you. So check it out, it's called Wiser Conflict. You can find it at wiserconflict.com If you've got something coming up that you think is going to ruffle some feathers it might be super useful for you. And lastly, reminder to apply for the Confident Nerd School before June 1st if you wanna have access to the bonus, the free purpose session, 90 minute intensive purpose session.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:13:44]:
Apply before June 1st if the program is interesting to you, it's at Self. There's all the information there. There's the the the curriculum. There's the price, the logistics, what's included. Go and have a look. Okay. Have a beautiful week everyone, and I will talk to you soon. Bye bye.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [01:14:10]:
If you love what you're hearing on the South Growth Nerds podcast and you want individual help finding a new direction for your life and developing the courage to make your dreams a reality, you have to check out how we can work together on selfgrowthnerds.com Nerds message me on Instagram at selfgrowthnerds. My clients say they would have needed that support years ago. So if you're tired of feeling like you're wasting your life, don't wait. Get in touch now, and I cannot wait to meet you.