Episode 174: Why Men Struggle Asking for Help - with John and Matthew
Too many men suffer in silence. But why does asking for help seem easier for people socialized as women? In this episode, former clients John and Matthew share their personal journeys and the obstacles they faced in seeking support. From societal pressures to internalized notions of masculinity, we discuss how men can overcome some of the barriers that prevent them from getting the help they deserve and the importance of finding the courage to reach out.
Topics
The pressure to fulfill various traditional male roles.
Overcoming obstacles related to seeking help as a male.
Concerns about investing in intangible aspects like coaching.
Importance of having a safe space to share without fear of judgment.
Importance of taking action and embracing change for personal growth.
Links
👉 If you're a man thinking “I gotta try something”, book an assessment call with me at selfgrowthnerds.com/school 👈
Recommendations from this episode:
Transcript
[AUTO-GENERATED]
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:00:06]:
Welcome to the Self growth Nerds podcast. I'm your host Marie, a courage coach, creative soul and adventure seeker. Since thru hiking the Pacific Crest Trail in 2019, I'm on a mission to help you embrace your most confident self so you can achieve your dreams too. If you're eager for deep conversations, big questions and meaningful connections, join me on the quest to discovering how we can create a more magical and memorable life.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:00:38]:
Hello Nerds. How are you? I'm doing really good. Today we are touching on a very important topic that I've never discussed before which is asking for help as a man. Before we jump in, I want to remind you that I still have beta spots open for my new program, the Confident Nerd School. This is for you if you feel like you're not on your own path. If you feel like you're on a path that you've taken due to social expectations and you're being what you think people expect you to be, but you're not going after what you are being called to do deep down in your heart. That is bound to make you feel eternally dissatisfied or, you know, you're doing fine. Your life is fine.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:01:30]:
Everything is fine, but you miss that inner fire. You wanna feel passionate. You wanna feel enthusiastic. You wanna feel like what you're doing is meaningful. This is who the Confident Nerd School is for. So if that sounds like you, if you're curious, just book a call. It's a free assessment call where you and I are going to meet. I'm gonna ask you very powerful questions that are going to help me and help you understand what is really going on and what has kept you really from going all in after what you want.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:02:08]:
Then if I think we're a good fit and I'm the right person to help you, I'll tell you about what the next steps are, and you get to decide. There's no pressure at all. It's your choice. But at least you'll have all the information. So just go to Self. You'll be able to click on book a call. You'll have access to my calendar and there's a bunch of available time slots that you can choose from. Okay.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:02:35]:
Now is the time to jump into today's topic, which is why men struggle to ask for help. The reason why I wanted to have this conversation is because I noticed that the number of men who listen to this podcast represents approximately 25% of the audience. But when it comes to the people who make the leap into becoming a client of mine, it represents about 5%. There's a discrepancy there that I was curious about, so I invited 2 former clients, John and Matthew. They were part of my group program, Brave and Bold, and we talk about why they felt they needed help. They are also going to share very vaudeville what got in the way of them reaching out at first. So whether it be personal fears, social rules that they felt they needed to follow, expectations that come with what it means to quote unquote be a man, and so much more. They're also going to talk about how they managed to overcome these obstacles and why they think it's so important to do so.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:03:46]:
Now, John and Matthew both identify as cis men, but this is relevant for you if you've been socialized as a man and don't no longer identify as one today because there are messages that you have probably internalized that can still make it more challenging for you to reach out and get the support that you deserve. Actually, this episode is relevant for anyone Because even if you don't identify as a man, it will help you understand them better. And show you the ways in which the patriarchy makes us all suffer. As I was preparing this episode, there's a a scene from my past that came to mind. I was sitting at the table with an ex partner and the phone rang. It was one of their loved ones, someone that they were really close with, that was calling to say that they had been broken up with. They were really sad. And the way my partner reacted was with a few jokes and a dismissal of the challenging emotions.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:04:50]:
They had hung up the phone within a few minutes, and I sat there with my jaw dropped. I couldn't believe what I had just witnessed. If that same situation had happened to a close friend of mine, the it would have been completely different. I would have asked, okay, tell me how you feel, how you're doing, what can I do for you, I I I'm coming? I'm gonna I'm gonna be there. But what I saw in that moment was total discomfort with difficult emotions. Not knowing how to feel them and how to talk about them. And it it it this is just one instance, but I've seen similar situations happen with multiple men throughout my life. The author, Self hooks, talked about this in her book, The Will to Change, Men, Masculinity, and Love.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:05:41]:
She writes, quote, the first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is that they engage in acts of psychic self mutilation that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. End quote. This leads to loneliness, to addiction, depression, violence, and even death. In Canada, suicide rates are approximately 3 times higher among men compared to women. And when I looked at the Anxiety and Depression Association of America, they write that although women attempt suicide more often than men do, men are more likely to complete suicide. And one of the reasons for this is that, quote, they show fewer warning signs such as talking about suicide, end quote. This same association shares that nearly 1 in 10 men experience some form of depression or anxiety, but less than half of them seek treatment. So the numbers are sobering, to say the least.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:06:44]:
And as a coach, my job is not to deal with suffering at that kind of level. However, what those numbers tell me is that there is a real challenge for men when it comes to reaching out and asking for the support that they Nerds. So that's why I wanted to explore this topic with 2 former clients of mine. So without further ado, let's jump into it. Welcome, John and Matthew. Thank you so much for being here. Please start by introducing yourselves. Please tell us where you are, how old are you, and what your daily life looks like.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:07:25]:
Let's start with you, John. Sure.
John Riddle [00:07:27]:
Yeah. My name's, John Riddle. I'm 44 years old. I live here in Austin, Texas. I'm a husband and a father, to a teenage boy. My days look like, you know, I work at a tech company doing project management during the day and then on my weekends trying to focus on whatever my son Nerds. And, yeah.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:08:04]:
Awesome. Thanks. What about you, Matthew?
Matthew Dorsey [00:08:07]:
My name is Matthew Dorsey. I'm 29 years old, and I live in Raleigh, North Carolina. I'm a, PhD student in engineering. And a lot of my day to day right now is just, like, 6 months out from finishing my dissertation. So when I'm not doing that, I enjoy being, like, pretty active, like, running and do a lot of climbing too, as well as self reflection and what, whatnot. I like reading books and, yeah, new people.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:08:44]:
You are 2 self growth nerds. Alright. Thank you so much for introducing yourselves. Let's start with what made you decide to get a coach. So we we worked together, I think, a year ago. You were both in my coaching program, and I I I wanna know what was the the motivation, the initial motivation.
John Riddle [00:09:07]:
You know, I knew, I knew deep down that I wanted some kind of change in my life, but I didn't really know what that was, what that was. Right? I looked around me and everything felt comfortable and secure and all of that, but it wasn't feeling, like, rewarding in some way. Right? And so, because I couldn't describe it, you know, I I felt like, okay, how do I get help somewhere? But, you know, maybe we'll get into this later, but a lot of my internal programming was that I don't really need help. Right? I should be able to, like, fix this for myself and find out for myself. But, you know, some friends and and family had said, well, you know, maybe you need to, you know, get some help from somewhere. Right? And it was, I think your message, Marie, about feeling like, if you're out in nature and you feel like in alignment with yourself out in nature, but then you come back and you don't, and you lose that feeling. Right? And so there was something that just spoke to me about that. And so then I was like, oh, well maybe this is a way that I could at least just get help with finding out maybe what it is or some tools to use to find out what it is that I'm looking for.
John Riddle [00:10:31]:
And so that's what, what brought me to coaching, I guess, especially rather than therapy.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:10:37]:
Mhmm. Yeah. That makes sense. What about you, Matthew?
Matthew Dorsey [00:10:41]:
At the time when I I joined, I think I was, really struggling with the like, where I was at in my PhD. I was, I think, like, 2 and a half or, like, 3 years into my program, and I was feeling a really big disconnection between, why, you know, the big picture and my day to day, basically. And that was especially around, like, my interactions with my boss and like the material that I was working on.
John Riddle [00:11:16]:
When it was, it was
Matthew Dorsey [00:11:17]:
to the point where I was like very close to dropping out actually, which was kind of like a, a really big decision for me. Because this is something I've been kind of wanting to do for a really long time. So, instead of dropping out, I, like, stayed in my program and also joined the Brave and Bold program. And, yeah, I was really just looking for, kind of a, a way to feel more motivated for like what I was doing in the day to day and also like, kind of discover what I was looking for, you know, next, what, what my, what my goals were, long term?
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:11:57]:
Okay. So for motivation and clarity about your vision and, John, it was about figuring out what could light you up, what could feel rewarding in your day to day? Correct. Sweet. Would you say you had obstacles to overcome in order to ask for help? You touched on it, John, when you said your your programming was, I I don't need help. Was there anything else, or may maybe you can speak more on this that that got in the way of you jumping in and just going, let's do this.
John Riddle [00:12:36]:
And, yeah, definitely. I think probably one of the first things to overcome was, you know, I was hearing this voice in my head that was, you know, because you you should be able to do this yourself If you do it in this other way, if you seek help, you know, it's gonna mean like spending money that's not for the family, that's just on you. It means spending time, on yourself and taking away from others, right? And so, there was always kind of that component of not necessarily feeling selfish Cause I definitely had, you know, confirmation from my wife about, you know, Hey, you should go see if you can find someone to help you. But it still felt, like, selfish in a way.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:13:27]:
Okay. So is this oh, oh, about putting yourself first. The
John Riddle [00:13:32]:
Yes.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:13:33]:
The feelings that came would it would you say was guilt that came from wanting to put yourself first?
John Riddle [00:13:39]:
Yeah. Definitely. There was some guilt and also, you know, just feeling like, well, is this still a right way to invest in myself? It felt not traditional. Usually it's like, well, invest your time in working harder at work or in finding something at the job place to help you excel there or, you know, spend, spend the time or money some some other way, rather than something that's not necessarily tactile or quantifiable. Right? That that was, definitely something to get over as well.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:14:32]:
Super interesting. What about you, Matthew?
Matthew Dorsey [00:14:35]:
I I definitely relate to that, John, just as far as when when I was thinking about joining the just, like, how intangibles what I was stepping into was like, I, I never really thought about like coaching before and there was like, I don't really know. Yeah. What, what I'm necessarily gonna get out of that. And that was really scary because there was like a really big commitment upfront, to like, who knows what, you know? And I think in particular for coaching, that was, like, a really big, kind of I had to really, you know, remind myself and, I mean, I think there are a lot of really good reasons, you know, to sort of, like, think about it as, like, investing in yourself. But, I had to, like, remind myself that a lot.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:15:27]:
Was there other obstacles other than that that you had to overcome?
Matthew Dorsey [00:15:33]:
Yeah. I mean, I I think there's also certainly, like, like, I don't know many people that have, like, worked with a coach before, you know, so that that was kind of sort of like thinking about talking to other people about that. That was also, like, a little scary for me, because I was like, you know, I I don't really know how to, like, tell someone that I'm doing that, you know, because it's not like like normal or whatever. Or like as as far as, like, other people that I know. So Yeah.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:16:03]:
Mhmm. I mean, I think we're recently getting used to talking more openly about being in therapy. About all of that, like taking care of ourselves is is a little bit taboo. John, were you gonna add something?
John Riddle [00:16:19]:
Yeah. I I I resonate with that there with with, you know, like what coaching is. And that was like the number one question I then got from, like, all my family and friends is like a coach. Like, so what is that? How is that different than therapy? And if it's not a therapist, how do you know you can trust this person? And like all of that. Whereas I kind of felt like it felt a little bit more accessible to me because it didn't like come, I guess, with all of the, you know, with with what we know of therapy or some of the maybe some of the the baggage that comes with therapy. You know? Like, it's like, oh, this is a this is a a big thing. You know, it it sometimes you might admit that, like, there's something wrong with me that I need to fix or something like that. Right? I've never been in therapy but like those are some of the thoughts that go along with it.
John Riddle [00:17:13]:
Whereas coaching is like, well, it's just somebody to talk to who can give me advice on stuff, Right? That was how I was thinking of it, going into it and it didn't seem to have as much gravity to it. Mhmm.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:17:26]:
Okay. I see. That's interesting. So that was your personal experience, the experiences, the obstacles that you personally had to overcome. If you look around you at your friends, your family, you in the past as well, what are reasons you think why it's harder for men to ask for help sometimes? Yeah. I think there's, like, a couple different,
Matthew Dorsey [00:17:56]:
like, ask things that like come into play, with like men and asking for help. Men struggle a little bit with vulnerability, like, opening up. I know that that's something that I personally have a difficult I have to, like, remind myself to do that. And I think they're also a lot more likely to sort of, like, shoulder things on their own versus, like, you know, reach out or, like, talk to people about stuff. I also think that there's, like, an important aspect of, like I feel like maybe men are sometimes, like, less incentivized to, like, want to change.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:18:35]:
Why do you think that is?
John Riddle [00:18:37]:
And I think what came to my mind is that I think a lot of time men feel entrenched in the roles, in our roles that we have. Right? So this wasn't necessarily something that I thought a lot about until going through coaching, but I took stock of what roles am I in. Right? I have the roles of being a husband, of being a father, of being a coworker, of I'm being someone who brings in income in the family, has all of these different roles, who's a son to my parents, all of these things. And I think we get entrenched in this mindset of like, I need to be good at those things. And so in order to be good at those things, kind of putting those things in front of what might be what is my best well-being or what what my desires or passions are and that it's an either or kind of game. Right? Plus, I think there's this narrative about some men who also, you know, like midlife crisis where they go throw everything away and start a new life and all of that kind of stuff and seem very negative. And so always kind of pushing about like, oh, I don't want to get to that point where I go crazy or that I put all of these people down or disrespect all of the people in my life. So I'll just stay on this course.
John Riddle [00:20:23]:
Right? And I'll just try to be the best of all of these things that I can And it doesn't matter whether I'm happy with that or not, you know, as long as I'm, from my perspective, fulfilling my Growth, in all of those facets of my life.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:20:39]:
Yeah. I don't know if you remember, but in coaching we talked a few times about having a manual.
Matthew Dorsey [00:20:45]:
You have
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:20:45]:
like a very strict manual for how you should be as a provider, as a husband, as a and it limits you from pursuing your true self because you're trying to stick. You're trying to abide by the manual.
John Riddle [00:21:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. And you don't even you don't even necessarily realize that there's there's a a path to being both. Right? And what that path can be where you can be open about what your desires are, what your passions are with your partner, with your coworkers, with all of these people. And then having a dialogue with them about that to be like, how do we move forward together acknowledging what your desires are and what our desires are. Right? So, yeah, because I think that probably doesn't even necessarily come to mind very easily without thinking through it.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:21:52]:
Mhmm. And that reminds me of conversations that we've had where, okay, how can I honor my needs but also honor the needs of, the the people close to me as well that I care about?
John Riddle [00:22:05]:
Exactly.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:22:06]:
What are mess the main messages you've internalized growing up about what it means to be a man, would you say? Like, it it it goes back to what you were saying, Matthew, about struggling with vulnerability. What's what's something you've internalized growing up that makes it, more challenging to to being vulnerable?
Matthew Dorsey [00:22:31]:
I think, like, asking for help a lot of times can be perceived, like, by me, you know, as, kind of, like, feeling weak or, you know, not not strong or whatever. Like, so it's kind of this aspect of, like, strength, or capability. And I feel like a lot like, that aspect of, like, capability also, like, comes into play. Like, the ability to, like, be able to do something, you know, like, whether it's, like, physical or, you know, like, social, like, you know, being, like, physically strong or, like, having, like, a strong, like, social network, like friends, you know, or kind of being, like yeah. Like, perceived in that that aspect. I feel like that's sort of like a big message that, like, I've I've had to, like, grow to remind myself that, like, you know, even though I can't necessarily, like, do this thing, that doesn't mean that I'm, like, valuable. You know? Mhmm. And that that comes into play, like, in, like, almost, you know, every aspect of my life, from, like, friends to,
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:23:46]:
yeah. So the the code the programming is, like, strong equals valuable, strong social network, strong status, strong body, strong mind.
Matthew Dorsey [00:23:57]:
Yeah. And and, you know, the kind of, like, con opposite of that where it's like, not like having to, like, admit that you. Need help doing something is. You know, you, like, you're not able to do that. I E, like, you can't or something like that. And that certainly makes it a lot harder to to say, like, yeah. I I need help in this area of my life or what whatever it is.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:24:23]:
Mhmm. Yeah. You've got to be perceived as being capable of doing anything. Okay. I see you, John, nodding very hard.
John Riddle [00:24:35]:
Yes. Yes. Those were man, those are all coming to mind for me too. Especially the, you know, like if you have an issue, like you should be able to fix it Self. Right? There's also kind of this narrative of, as a man, you are who you are. So, you know, you as a man should be good at these things and it doesn't. And it's okay that you're not good at these other things. But, you know, that's not changeable.
John Riddle [00:25:10]:
You're not changeable as a man. Right? And it's just that you should fit this mold of being a man. And and it is your your state throughout your life. Right?
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:25:26]:
Mhmm.
Matthew Dorsey [00:25:27]:
It's really tough to admit, like, how, like, much you have to learn and how much you have to go to other people, like, asking them for help. And, yeah, I think that's that's I know, especially for, like, PhD students, that's one of, like, the biggest things is just being like, yeah. I'm like, I'm not capable of this. Like, I'm I feel like there's this like perception of like, I am supposed to be the expert at this like topic or whatever, you know, but I feel so just incapable and, you know, acknowledging that is tough because you have to, like, go and go ask people for help. And I I think also, like, I I have, like, lots of moments where I'm like, I'm like really stressed, you know, that, you know, there's just like a lot going on in my life with like, how I choose to live in, I guess. I'm constantly, you know, just kind of trying to push myself, like you got this, like, you know, just keep going, you know, you could do it like tomorrow's gonna be better. Like, I'm, I'm kind of like really, really used to, to doing that. And after a certain point, like, it's just like, you just can't anymore.
Matthew Dorsey [00:26:45]:
You know, you have to just like stop and say like, I just can't do this right now.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:26:50]:
And I don't got this.
Matthew Dorsey [00:26:52]:
I don't got this. Yeah. And and it it's it's yeah. I've had I've struggled with that enough, like, that that balance between, like, pushing myself and, like, taking a break. But I've kind of had to learn the hard way a few times where, like, I've, you know, pushed myself so hard that it's gone to a point where, like, my mental health was, like, way past where it should be, you know? And then there were major repercussions for me because I, like, had to take you know, rather than just, like, kinda taking, like, an evening or, like, a weekend to myself, it's like I need I need time. You know?
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:27:30]:
I need a time out instead of pushing, pushing, pushing. Yeah. But that's one the initial question was the the messages you've internalized. So, yes, one of them is you it's better to push and to keep going and to suck it up rather than stop and take time off for you to take care of you. So we've talked about all kinds of obstacles that you have experienced or that you see other men experiencing when it comes to asking for help. We've talked about investing time and money on you and your self care, about taking a non traditional path about what are people gonna think, how do you explain that to people, not knowing what exactly you're gonna get out of something like coaching. No, I wanna know how you managed to overcome those obstacles. We've named the bold the boulders in the way of getting help.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:28:27]:
How did you manage to go around the boulder?
Matthew Dorsey [00:28:32]:
I think that there is, like, you kind of just need to, like, let go of, like, a sense of control on your ability to, like, handle something. You know? And I think when you're asking for help from someone else, there's like a, you kind of have to be willing to say, like, I'm not in control and I need someone else to help me. And I don't know what that's gonna mean for me. You know, as far as, like, how is that help going to change me or who I am or how I see myself or, you know, my perception of, like, what's gonna happen in the future. And I think that's, that's like a really big part of, being able to, like, step through with that.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:29:31]:
Okay. So saying, okay. I don't know, but I know I need something, so let's just try it. Let's just try it out. Anything else that you that comes to mind in terms of what you've had to tell yourself in order to feel good moving forward?
John Riddle [00:29:46]:
Yeah. I think for me, you know, it was very similar to where it was just like, I just gotta try something. And, you know, because it didn't come up as being like a super anxious thing in my life that like, Oh, my God. Like, I've gotta do something. It was just like this really low key stress, constantly. Like once I realized it later, like, I looked back and realized that, like, I was on this marathon marathon of, like, low key, like, denial and and avoidance. That sounds fun. Yeah.
John Riddle [00:30:32]:
And I was like, wow. I've you know, my brain has been trained and to, like, handle this, like, you know, this foundation of discontent and how to put it in a box, even though that box is sitting right in the middle of the room all the time and you're having to walk around it. But, you know, you felt like that. And so, in order to get around that box or like you say, get around the boulder in order to then hopefully address it and open the box, you know, it just took that like, I've got to try something. Right? And then also then getting over the the initial fear factor. And I think, you know, Marie, in your Instagram posts as well, you talked about this and this got me thinking too, which was that, change is just going to be a scary thing. And we have to acknowledge that. Right? And so when I got to that point, I think you and I were like messaging back and forth.
John Riddle [00:31:42]:
And I was like, well, let me think about it. And you're like, so what more do you have to think about? Basically calling me out of, like, make a decision or not. You know? And so I was like, okay. I'm gonna do it. You know? And then, like, I had this, like, immediate, like, wave of, oh, my God. What am I doing? And at the same time, like, oh, good. I'm making a decision. Right? And being excited and afraid at the same time.
John Riddle [00:32:13]:
And because, like, I had been, like, so wrapped up in, like, not changing. And so to just make that one decision to, like, walk around the box and and take action on it, was really, really emotional.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:32:32]:
Wow. Yeah. I remember that exact moment. I was in a coffee shop. I remember which coffee shop messaging with you. I remember that conversation. And you're you're describing it so perfectly, and it's the experience of almost everyone that works with me. What what they tell me is you get stuck in the miserable maybe.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:32:53]:
Either it's a yes or a no, but the miserable maybe is the worst place to be, and people stay there for years. Like a little robot, like, imagine like a robot vacuum that's just stuck in the corner of the room, and that's just going. And then once you decide to make a decision, you create energy, you create momentum, and you're moving forward. It doesn't even matter at that point where you end up. It matters that you're in action. But I I love what you shared like this this marathon of low key denial, and you just get used to handling this content. It's almost poetic, it's so true. Most people when they start working with me, they've been ignoring their inner voice, the voice of their true self for years.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:33:43]:
And now it's like, okay, it feels like a big jump in the void because, okay, finally I give myself a voice.
John Riddle [00:33:51]:
That's exactly it. And hang on, because you I feel like maybe in our society or maybe this is partly a male thing too, is that you've got this basic goal, you know, when you strike out on your own and leave home that you've gotta have your needs met. You need to succeed at something. You need to whatever else you feel needs to happen. Some people feel like they need to start a family or they need to buy a house or all of those things. And so, you start accumulating those things. And then you're like, okay, this is it. I've got to just hold onto this because the narrative doesn't go beyond that.
John Riddle [00:34:40]:
And the narrative doesn't go to, oh my God, how can I reach, like define what my purpose is and reach for my purpose and be passionate and all that? It's like, yeah, that's just bonus if you happen to do it that way. And, but if you don't, like, don't, like, don't rock the boat. Don't, don't risk losing all of the things that, you know, society has told you you have to have when you get them, right? At least in my case. And so it's like, yeah, the potential of going further or expanding your horizon is always at this potential cost of everything else that you've achieved over time. And that is just a very, very powerful detractor. Right? Mhmm.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:35:37]:
What about you, Matthew? You were saying you've had to let go of control, just surrender, and just try something. It's similar in a way. I just just gonna put myself into action. Does anything else come to mind after what John has shared?
Matthew Dorsey [00:35:53]:
The I think just hearing both of you speak, I just realized how these, like, ideas of like inner voice or like having purpose were things that I just had never thought about before, you know? And like, John, you were talking about this box, you know, that's in the middle of the room. You're like stepping around it. But you know, in the sense that I like, like I had never even thought about those things before. It's sort of like, I'm just walking around in the dark, you know, because I'm not even aware of that. That's something that I should be, like, thinking about. Like, how do I listen to myself more? Or, like, how am I gonna feel fulfilled? It's like following, you know, whatever my purpose in life is. Like, I I never really taken that time to, like, think about that. And that was one of the biggest things that I got out of coaching was just, like, taking time to, like, think about that and, like, start making progress towards, like, understanding what that means for me.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:36:56]:
Yeah. So you're walk walking in a dark room, pretending that you're strong and that you know what you're doing. He hitting your toe, on the corner, of the box, but pretending like you're not hurting. I love that. Okay, so coaching helped you turn on the lights in that room. Actually, what would you say so so so you overcome overcame these obstacles, and then you started coaching. What has coaching helped you with the most? Matthew, you shared it helped you clarify your vision. What else would you say it, it helped you with the most?
Matthew Dorsey [00:37:35]:
Well, it helped me maybe get, like, a broader perspective on, like, what I'm doing. The thing that it I think it helped me with the most was just, like, my day to day and thinking about, like, being happy and, like, enjoying the things that I'm doing. Because, like, I know, like, when I'm working, sometimes it's really easy to get sidetracked about just, like, why am I doing this or kind of, like, getting caught up in these, you know, just, like, little things that are going on in my life that just, like, take control and, like, you know, I'm somewhere else than, you know, that I wanted to be. And I feel like that like sort of like, that like concept of metacognition is like thinking about what I'm thinking about and like, kind of breaking that down in, like, coaching sessions, like listening to how everyone everyone else was, like, struggling with these, like, random things that they were popping up in their lives and and, like, what that meant for them, even though it seemed, like, really insignificant. Like, that was that was really helpful for me. And I think after the the coaching, like, participating in the coaching program, I, just found it a lot easier to, like, focus on what I was doing day to day because I just, like, wasn't getting as caught up in, like, small things and could also see how that was taking me towards, you know, whatever I wanted.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:39:01]:
When you say you were weren't getting caught in small things anymore, do you mean, like, thought loops? So the the stories we tell ourselves?
Matthew Dorsey [00:39:09]:
Yeah. Exactly. You know, and I I think one, like I mentioned this earlier, it's just like, why am I even here? Why am I, like, why am I doing this? And just kind of, like, having that thought in your head all the time, you know, makes it difficult to move towards your goals.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:39:27]:
Yes. Like, if when you figure out where you're going, what your direction is, and why you're going in that in that direction, it gives meaning to everything you do in the day to day. What about you, John? What would you say, coaching helped you with the most?
John Riddle [00:39:45]:
Yeah. I think the the most was, again, just introducing me back to myself and back to like realizing that I need to like reacquaint myself with what my, what my desires are, what does light me up, who am I, right, Rather than who am I playing. And so I think I think that was first and foremost the big one. You know? I think the other thing it did was by learning, some of the methods and tools that that you shared during the coaching program. It made me feel like I could kind of take back and be able to move forward with those. So, once I do figure out who I am and what drives me and what my purpose is, then and then I have these tools that I can then, like, go and, like, dig deeper on certain things or even practical things. Like, how can I, like, clear my schedule and realign my schedule with what I want to do rather than just letting it fill up with whatever comes my way? Down to like the people that I choose to interact with. All of those things, right? Being able to like really shape your life around where you wanna go.
John Riddle [00:41:26]:
Because defining like where you wanna go is one thing and that's a dream, but then changing that dream into a mission and being able to execute that mission you know, requires, you know, being able to mold your day and mold your relationships and mold all of these things to move in that direction. I think coaching really helped introduce like that whole holistic concept together. Not just defining what that is out there, but how can you start moving towards it? Yeah.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:42:02]:
And that's why in my framework, there's 3 parts to my framework. I always tell people when they're interested. There's the the big vision, figuring out where you're going, but then there's the focused action. How do you take action to get there? And then there's the re rewiring. How do you re rewire all the stories about who you're supposed to be in order to to be who you are and to go after your vision in a more much more unapologetic way, in a much more intentional way. And I love what you shared. I mean, who I am versus who am I playing. That is massive.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:42:37]:
Most people, when they come to me, they're like, I don't know what to do next. And it's because what they're saying is I don't know what to do because I've tried to do what everyone wants me to do, and it has not made me happy. It hasn't made me feel fulfilled. So now what? So you've got to train yourself to get back to who you are, a reintroduction to who you are so that you can listen to what you actually want. Because you know what you want. You're just you've lost touch with yourself. There there was a disconnection that you shared earlier. Now the most important question for me in this whole conversation is, okay, context.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:43:17]:
Context is my podcast, Self Growth Nerds, has 25% male listeners. Okay? People who identify as men, 25%. But in terms of clients, it's 5%. So there's a disconnect here. Most of my clients are women. Only like 5% are men. So what do we do about that? I want I wanna know what you both would tell those people that are listening, who are like, no, I can I can do it on my own? I'm listening to my podcast, I can do it on my own, it would be selfish to to spend time on me. What would you tell them? Or even like, John, you have a son.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:44:00]:
What would you want your son to integrate moving forward about asking for help? Or maybe, Matthew, you have a nephew. I don't know. What would you wanna tell these people, about that?
John Riddle [00:44:12]:
Well, since you, you since since you've asked it in the context of my son, right? Something that I've found valuable throughout my life and it's a little bit weird that I didn't think about this with coaching or even just getting Self in general is that, that's the beauty of being in community and and being and having multiple people in the world is that we're all good at different things and we all struggle with different things. And so, it's all just about matching each other up with the people that are great with something that can help the people that need help with that. Right? And so, I'm a firm believer in this with my finances. Like, I give it to an advisor. My taxes, I give it to an expert there. And certain things around the house, I'm going to call a plumber, right? I'm going to take my car to a mechanic, right? Like why wouldn't I do the same thing with, you know, when I'm struggling with, you know, my own identity and with what I want to do with my life. Like, there's going to be people out there that can help me with that because they've spent the time doing their own learning, being around other people, helping other people, right, and becoming experts. So, I would say rely on those people.
John Riddle [00:45:49]:
When you finally recognize that, Hey, there's something more that I, that I want to do or something that I wanna change with Self. And then just say like, is it my best, the best use of my time to try to figure that out for myself? Or is it better to bring someone else in who can really bring that to the next level and and help me do that in a much more holistic way?
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:46:20]:
Yeah. You know what? It makes me think about you said it so wisely, but it just made me think about me the other day trying to fix my tap by watching YouTube videos. It took me hours and so many swear words, and at the end of the day, it's like I was so tired, and and my day could have been better spent if I just asked help from someone who knows how to do it how to do it. It probably would have taken them 5 minutes while it took me hours. So it it I it's a very neutral way to look at it. You just, you can't do everything. You're not an expert at everything, so you've got to find surround yourself with people who can just make your life easier. Help you save time and save energy.
John Riddle [00:47:06]:
Yeah. Or some sometimes in the case I feel like coaching is kind of the next level though. It's like something that like you you can't necessarily always do it on your own. Right? You really you really do need to bring other people in. You know? I heard about an example where all room solos of men, none of them identified that they had had a deep conversation, a deep emotional conversation with someone in the last year. Right? And so that's a big thing. To be like, Okay, Self, let me just spend the time to figure it out Self, That's a huge thing to ask to have to figure that out. Right? And so, to be able to bring in someone and that isn't necessarily part of that network, right? So you don't have to be that vulnerable.
John Riddle [00:48:04]:
You can be vulnerable, but with someone who's, you know, in different third party, you know, and get feedback that way, you know, it's it's safe, You know? It's not like I have to go, like, talk about this to my wife or my best friend that lives next door or, you know, that kind of stuff, which I still do. Right? But I can bounce an idea or something that I that may not be fully formed, you know, with a coach and get feedback on that without it becoming, like, part of the narrative going on with the rest of my, network. Right?
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:48:41]:
Mhmm. You can do you can, talk be vulnerable in in a safe space. And it's kind of like a practice for then going back into the quote, unquote real world. Also, sometimes you're talking about big life changes in coaching. So you get to do it with me, who has no, there's no consequences on my life, and and talk about it with me without, you know, talking about it with someone who's closest to you, who would be impacted by that life change, they're not gonna react the same way. Right? But sometimes you just need to bounce ideas off.
John Riddle [00:49:19]:
Yeah. I I like that idea of it being practice. Right? Because it isn't that you just wanna have this narrative with or have this, you know, yeah, this narrative with with a coach and not bring those other people in, you know, into the conversation. And, because it still needs to be healthy with your spouse or with your friends or whoever's part of this. But again, yeah, just helping you kinda get your bearings on on having that initial conversation about it, getting it out of your head. Right? I think that's a lot of it is that you can only go so far in your own head and sometimes you've gotta get it out and get some feedback on it. But sometimes, like, that can be premature if you don't have the fully formed thought yet and you're sharing it with your closest loved ones, you know, and and they may have a reaction of like, oh, no. That's not good.
John Riddle [00:50:16]:
Or, that makes me scared. You know? Like, you know? And then that can shut you me down. You know? Be like, okay, I will talk about that. Like, never mind. You know? Versus like exploring it a little bit more with someone before you, like, get it more fully formed and being able to then come to your loved ones with a formed perspective and opinion. And then like, being able to then, like, have that relationship back and forth about like, okay, this is what you want and this is what I want. How do we move forward together?
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:50:47]:
Mhmm. Yeah. I love that. I think,
Matthew Dorsey [00:50:51]:
what John was saying was just like almost exactly what I was trying to say, in in my head. And because and I was thinking about what I would say because I have a nephew. I don't have a son. And I think that the, the sort of like thing that I'm thinking about saying to him is just like, if you're gonna go on a trip, you wanna bring good people. And, and maybe, you know, I'm like willing to consider that maybe you could do it on your own. Like, I'm not gonna, like, maybe you could, but you know, why are you gonna shoot, shoot yourself in the foot when you can like, kind of help yourself and and bring along people that, like, know what they're doing and, you know, can make your life so much easier.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:51:41]:
Mhmm. So Yeah. It's actually doing it instead of doing it on your own, you surround yourself with the right people. That's just a smart way to a smarter way to move forward, And you'll have so much more fun.
John Riddle [00:51:55]:
Exactly.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:51:56]:
Okay. So that is it for my conversation with John and Matthew. However, after I stopped the recording, we were talking for another half an hour and I asked them if they had any male role models or anything that they would recommend that they have found inspiring, for them to get in touch with their vulnerability. And to become the kind of man that they want to be. And what they shared was so valuable that I asked them to send me a voice note Nerds. And that is what I'm going to end with today. I hope this episode was insightful for you. Please don't hesitate to reach out and let me know what you think.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:52:35]:
I'm on Instagram at Nerds and on Spotify you can leave a comment underneath the episode and I read every single one of them. It's super encouraging. Last but not least, if you're a man and you listen to this episode and you're thinking, okay, this is the moment where I surrender, just book an assessment call with me. We're gonna have a conversation, get to know each other, I'm gonna help you get clear on what it is that you want, what you're unsatisfied with, and what has been getting in your way. I'm gonna tell you if I think I am the right person to help you. I'm gonna tell you how working with me works, and then you'll have all the information you need to make an empowered decision moving forward. Now just to be clear, the first call is always free because I want to make sure that we're a good fit to work together before you commit. And that first call is gonna bring you so much clarity.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:53:37]:
It is very rare that we have a chance to spend 45 minutes to an hour taking a pause to focus a 100% of our attention on where we are right now in life and what needs fine tuning, what needs realignment to make sure that we keep going in the right direction. And live a life that we are proud of, that we don't have regrets about when we get old. So you can book that assessment call at selfgrowthnerds.com/school. There's a big button there that says book a call. It takes you straight to my calendar with all the available time slots. And if your availability doesn't match just message me on Instagram at Self and we'll find a way. Okay? Now I'm going to leave you with John and Matthew's voice notes about their role models. Have a beautiful week.
John Riddle [00:54:39]:
One of my role models today that, I think others could go check out is, Beau Miles. He has a YouTube channel. And really what I look up to him for is, you know, in years past he decided to, you know, go after what he was passionate about, change his career path a bit. And, in doing that,
Matthew Dorsey [00:55:07]:
you know,
John Riddle [00:55:07]:
he was able to travel and be in the outdoors and write a book and go on a book tour and you know, all of these sayings that just spoke to him. And all doing that while juggling having a family and, you know, being middle aged like I am. And so, you know, I I resonate a bit with his with his circumstances. But, he also, is a great storyteller and, really is philosophical about the things that he does, and he's very intentional in his processes. So, yeah. Recommend definitely checking him out.
Matthew Dorsey [00:55:50]:
One book that was really impactful for me was The Will to Change by Bell Hooks. It's been a little while since I've read this book, but from what I remember, Bell Hooks does a really great job describing the ways that men also suffer from the way that society is constructed in one thing that I personally took away from it was just how. You know, despite all of the advantages that I have been given one way that I'm really disadvantaged is my, like emotional capacity and like my ability to love, which is just something that, is really, really, impactful to, like, the human experience and, you know, I just have been, like conditioned, but it's just like a lot harder for me. Because of. You know, how society works or like how I've been raised here for, for whatever reason. So, that that was a really helpful book for me.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:56:49]:
Hey. If you love what you're hearing on the Self Growth Nerds podcast and you want individual help finding a new direction for your life and developing the courage to make your dreams a reality, you have to check out how we can work together on selfgrowthnerds.com or message me on Instagram at self Growth nerds. My clients say they would have needed that support years ago. So if you're tired of feeling like you're wasting your life, don't wait. Get in touch now and I cannot wait to meet you.