Episode 133 - What Type of Perfectionist Are You? - Part 2
After last week’s episode where we explored the 5 types of perfectionists described by Katherine Morgan Schafler in her book The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control, I share the ways each of them punishes themselves and how to replace self-judgment with kindness so they can feel better about themselves daily and make more progress towards their goals.
Topics
The importance of showing up courageously.
Not being intimidated by failure or loss.
The impact of assigning unhelpful meanings to outcomes.
Aligning personal values with goals.
Ways we might be punishing ourselves.
The importance of feeling restored.
Links
👉 If you are ready to have your most daring end-of-year so far, click here to join my intensive 1:1 Coaching program THE AUDACITY.
Resources
Books:
The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan Schafler
Sex Outside the Lines: Authentic Sexuality in a Sexually Dysfunctional Culture by Chris Donaghue
Transcript
[AUTO-GENERATED]
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the self-growth nerds podcast. I'm your host, Marie, a courage coach, creative soul, and adventure seeker since through hiking the Pacific Crest Trail in 2019, I'm on a mission to help you embrace your most confident self so you can achieve your dreams, too. If you're eager for deep conversations, big questions, and meaningful connections, join me on the quest to discovering how we can create a more magical and memorable life. Hello, Nerds. How are you? I'm good. Although today's episode was a challenge to outline, it's not easy for a perfectionist to summarize a book about perfectionism that was so good that I highlighted half of it. Try to come up with the biggest takeaways from a book that you loved from start to finish.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:01:09]:
I just want to read the whole book to you, but that's just not possible. So I came up with six takeaways. The first four are smaller, nuggets, and the last two are bigger. Bigger ones, bigger takeaways. So the book is A Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control by Catherine Morgan Schaffler, and I definitely encourage all of you to go get it and read it. It's amazing and to listen to last week's episode, where I share with you the five types of perfectionists that Catherine, the author of the book, created. It's very enlightening, and I will talk about these different types today. And this episode will make a lot more sense if you have listened to last week's episode.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:01:59]:
So just pause this one, go back to last week, what type of perfectionist are you? And then you can come back here. Okay, the first takeaway, the main takeaway of the whole book, really, is we need to unshame perfectionism. There's nothing wrong with being ambitious. Never apologize for your drive and for caring about excellence. And it's okay to love, to work, to love, to chase your highest potential. Now, not everyone is made this way. Some people are comfortable with the status quo. They're good with their routine, with living a quiet life.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:02:43]:
And that's what the writer and teacher Eckhart Tolle calls frequency holders. We need people like this as well as we need visionaries. So it shouldn't be a debate of what's right and what's wrong and just a celebration of all kinds of people. What I find interesting is that wanting more out of life is often pathologized when it comes to women because it's not in alignment with traditional standards of femininity, unless what you want more of is more order in your house, fancier recipes to cook for your guests, a better decorated house. In that case, it's celebrated. But it's uncomfortable for many people. When a woman says she wants to make more money, when she has really big goals, like wanting to be president, it's like, in the back of their minds, people are like, who does she think she is? She thinks she's better than everyone else, versus a man who wants those things is just expected. So that just makes me want to own who I am even more as a way to rebel against this silly conditioning that doesn't make sense at all.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:03:57]:
And another point that she brings in the book that made me feel super validated is that perfectionistic people have a Hugh demonic approach to well being. I'm going to spell that word because I'm not sure how you pronounce it. It's E-U-D-E-A-M-O-N-I-C which means a desire to increase meaningfulness versus people who have a hedonic approach to well being. Meaning they want to increase pleasure, they just want to have fun. They want to go out, play sports, dance. And not saying that we perfectionists don't like to have fun, but I think sometimes we might appear as serious because we love to work hard to read, to learn new things, to face challenges all things that might seem boring to other people or that might seem like too much effort. We find fulfillment in that. So I remember reading this and being like, yes, that's me.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:05:02]:
It's not that I'm not fun, it's that I find fun in different ways than some people. So that's it for takeaway number one. Let's just unshame perfectionism and own this part of us. I mean, if you're listening to this, maybe it's part of your purpose on this Earth to be someone who has really high standards. Maybe we will evolve into a better kind of world because of those high standards. So let's celebrate instead of condemn. Now, the second takeaway is the concept of liminal space. A liminal space is a state of transition between two places and you're in the middle feeling empty and lost.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:05:52]:
You're feeling empty because you are letting go of old parts of you that you have outgrown, but you haven't become this new version of yourself yet. This resonated very deeply because when I read the book, I was at the stage in my life where I had just hit a wall in terms of work. I was exhausted and I decided to pause my coaching program and I didn't know what was going to be next. I also knew that I was about to leave or I didn't know for sure, but it was coming close to my separation with my partner. And so I was in this space where I had to learn to allow the emptiness and the uncertainty to be there because new things are born from that space. That space is so uncomfortable. The problem is you have to sit with the discomfort because if you resist it, you block the newness from coming to life. In the book, the author explains that for perfectionists, the liminal space can be the state between knowing that your worth doesn't rely on external validation, but not yet being completely convinced that you are worthy just as you are.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:07:17]:
So for me that was so true because I got a lot of self worth from having a successful launch in my business. The more clients signed up for my services, the more worthy I felt. And I realized through trial and error that that was not the key, that that was not going to fill me up in a sustainable way. So I decided to pause my program to recenter. And when I read about liminal spaces, I was in that moment where I was building up the conviction that I was worthy just as I am, no matter how well my business is doing. That is definitely a big part of the work I have done in the last six months is that transition. And now I am coming out of that liminal space and feeling so much stronger, so much more grounded in my self worth. Okay, let's move on to takeaway number three.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:08:18]:
We have to be careful of how we attach meaning to circumstances in our lives. When we set goals, we have to be mindful of the why behind the goal. The goal in itself is not what matters, it's the fuel that's going to get you there. So for example, if one of your goals is to get a job with a better salary, I don't know, maybe you want to earn a six figure salary. Why is that? Is it because you want to growth? Or is it because you feel inadequate and think that this would make you feel worthy? Same thing with weight loss. Let's say you want to lose 20 pounds. Is it because you want to see what you're capable of? Or is it because you don't feel worthy right now? When you think that once you do lose the weight, then you will feel better about yourself. As a business owner, for example, I could tell myself, okay, my goal is to have ten clients.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:09:28]:
Because whether it's conscious or not, I make that mean that I'm successful now. Where it becomes dangerous is when the opposite is attached to shame. If having two clients is shameful for me because I make it mean that I'm a loser, then I'm going to strive towards that goal in an unsustainable way, in a scarcity mindset, because I'm just running away from this feeling of worthlessness. I remember going to a call with one of my coaches and telling them I was super happy because I had reached my goal in my launch. I don't remember what it was, but let's say it was ten clients. To keep it simple, I showed up and I was like, I got ten clients. Woohoo. And what she said to me was mind blowing in the moment.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:10:25]:
She said, Careful, that's not what we want to celebrate. We want to celebrate that you showed up every day for your two week launch period because that's what you have control over. Same thing. Let's say you want to ask for a promotion and your manager says no, you still have to celebrate that you showed up and had a hard conversation and made a bold request. Celebrating that you got the promotion. Yeah, it's fun, but at the same time it can be dangerous because you're putting the celebration in someone else's hands. I will be happy only if they give me what I want, which you don't have control over. So we want to practice getting into the habit of celebrating, trying hard instead of celebrating a successful outcome.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:11:22]:
Successful outcome is just a bonus from showing up courageously. That is really important because when you're not intimidated by the possibility of failing or losing, you're going to win so much more often. If you don't associate an unhelpful meaning to the outcome, you're just going to show up and try a bunch of things. And the more you try, the more often you will win versus if things going the quote unquote wrong way activates feelings of inadequacy in you. You're just going to play it small because you don't want to risk feeling less than. So think about this when you're setting a goal and interrogate yourself, do I want to, for example, through hike the whole Pacific Crest Trail because I'm excited to uncover what I'm capable of, or because I think it's going to finally make me into an interesting person? And if I don't manage to successfully get to the end, I'm going to beat myself up for being lazy. I mean, it seems ridiculous, but I've seen many people think this way. Setting a goal, that's like having a sword above your head.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:12:51]:
If you don't reach it, you're not going to feel motivated to move forward if the stakes are so high. This goes hand in hand with takeaway number four, which is the difference between superficial control versus authentic power. If your worth is dependent on external outcomes, you'll always be in a control mindset. Pay attention to the areas in your life where you're very attached to a way certain things should happen that can give you hints as to where your worth is being entangled with external circumstances. For example, let's say you're a parent of teenagers and you want to send a Christmas card to everyone every year. And this year one of your teenagers doesn't want to be in the photo, or they're not smiling in the photo. They have a grumpy face because they just think your Christmas card tradition is stupid. Now, you might get into a controlling mindset, wanting them to appear a certain way and get really angry because you get worthiness from what people are going to think about your family when they see the photo.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:14:18]:
You can tell you're in a controlling mindset when you focus on what's right versus what's wrong, how things should be versus how they shouldn't be. When you find yourself blaming other people if we take the teenager example, blaming them for having a bad attitude, when actually maybe you're the one with the bad attitude. If I think of another example let's say you have a business and you decide to set a financial goal, but this financial goal is wrapped up in your personal worth, then you might get very controlling and look for, okay, what's the right strategy, what's the right course of action in my business? And just picture a can in your hand. It's like you're holding the can very tightly. You'll be much more likely to burn out. Whereas if you feel worthy, no matter what people think of your family in the picture, if you feel worthy no matter how much money your business ends up making, then you can let go. And instead of using superficial control, you can lean into authentic power. You're not looking for a secure base outside of you.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:15:35]:
You're not looking for positive thoughts from other people or a certain number in the bank to make you feel like you've made it. No, because you are a secure base. You are standing on a grounded sense of self worth. And everything that you do from there, you just do it because you want to. You send a Christmas card because it brings you joy and you think it's fun thing to do. You set a financial goal because you want to challenge yourself, but you don't have anything to prove. It's the same thing in relationships. I'm reading a book right now that's called Sex Outside the Lines, and the author talks about how we might be tempted to control our partner so that we don't have to manage our feelings.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:16:30]:
If you're trying to control who your partner hangs out with, you don't want them to hang out with that hot friend that they have because you don't want to manage your insecurity. If you were connected to how amazing you are and if you 100% trusted that you're a good catch, then you wouldn't feel the need to control their movements and you might be like, right now, I know, I know, Marie, but how do you increase your sense of self worth? Like, easy to say, hard to do. Yes, I agree. That's hard work. It's work of a lifetime. And the author in the book gives a lot of advice on how you can do that. Now, we're going to continue with takeaway number five, the danger of self punishment. As perfectionists, we tend to be very critical of ourselves through negative self talk.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:17:26]:
But what happens when you are awful to yourself is that you learn to avoid yourself through numbing. And numbing is everything that gets you out of your brain. It might be scrolling your phone. It might be binging shows. It might be overworking. It might be drinking, taking drugs, shopping online. Imagine there's a bully at your school. You're not going to want to walk past where they hang out.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:17:55]:
So every time you need to go to your maths class, you're going to take a detour. It's going to take you longer to get to your maths class. Just so that you don't walk past that bully. Numbing is the same. Let's say you want to try something new like you want to start an art practice. Every time you sit in front of a canvas to paint, you are a bitch to yourself. Then you're not going to want to do that. You're not going to want to work on that project of yours.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:18:29]:
Let's say every time you sit down to write a blog post you are mean to yourself. You tell yourself you're not good enough and you're never going to be and that every sentence should be better than it is and it's not up to standards. Then you're never going to want to sit at your desk to write that blog post. You want to avoid the bully in your mind and you're most likely going to do that by procrastinating and going to wash the dishes or going to run some errands or scrolling your phone or all the things we do to avoid the inner demon to protect ourself. It's a short term fix, but it doesn't fix the problem at the source. The problem at the source is the bully in your head. So we want to replace this self punishment with something else. So that you don't have to numb, so that you can sit down in front of a canvas or at your desk and create without this mean voice, this mean girl in your mind.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:19:35]:
Now let's move through the five types of perfectionists and their favorite types of punishments. You might recognize yourself in one or in all of them. Let's see the first one, procrastinator perfectionist. Their favorite type of punishment is rumination. That means having a pity party, comparing yourself to others, not seeing what you have actually done, but focusing on everything that you haven't done that others have managed to accomplish. So much time passes with you just being stuck in a cycle of negative self talk and feeling down about yourself. You might also tend to blame yourself for not going as fast as other people or to blame others for starting without being actually well prepared because you think you could do it so much better and they're doing it in a half assed way and they shouldn't make spelling mistakes. Like clearly they haven't spent much time on that piece of work and you're so much more competent.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:20:46]:
You know the deal. You might not like to admit it, but in your mind you might be judging them and putting yourself in a superior position. But that's just because deep down you feel unsatisfied with yourself. When it comes to number two, parisian perfectionists, remember, they are the one who want to have really meaningful relationships with everyone. The way they're going to punish themselves is through people pleasing, through pretending to be the version of themselves that they think everyone will like and dim down the other parts of them that they don't think are as palatable. So for example with me when I'm with certain people, I used to hide. I still do it sometimes, to be honest. Hide the part of me that's super ambitious because I'm afraid it's going to make me less relatable.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:21:55]:
The driven part of me. That way of being is quite exhausting and makes me want to hang out less with these people because it's basically like I'm holding a heavy facade the whole time. So that's one thing that Parisian perfectionists tend to do. And they also can blame themselves for caring too much about what people think and they can blame others for being superficial or for not being conscious enough. If I'm in a networking event, for example, and I'm giving 100% of my attention to every single person that I meet, even though I might not be interested, then I might be very judgmental of someone else who hops from one conversation to the other with light heartedness. It's not because what they're doing is wrong. It's because I'm stuck in my ways, my people pleasing ways. And part of me wishes that I could be a little bit more like them.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:22:59]:
Yes, I value deep, meaningful connection. But when we find ourselves blaming and judging others, it's often because we envy a part of them. We envy something that they allow themselves to do, that we don't allow ourselves to do, because we would make it mean something awful about ourselves. Classic perfectionists. They like to disassociate, to get lost in the doing and the accomplishing of tasks, disconnected from themselves. Thinking about their grocery list while they're having sex, for example, they might blame themselves for not being organized enough and they might blame others for not adhering to their simple plan. Like, this was pretty clear I organized it all and you can't even be bothered to do as I planned. And if we look at intense perfectionists, their preferred way to self punish is interpersonal turmoil.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:24:06]:
So pushing people away by either being mean or passive aggressive or defensive, or by withdrawing when they need the most support. They might blame themselves for not getting others to perform well enough, or they might blame others for being mediocre. Lastly, we have messy perfectionists. Their favorite method of self punishment is arrested development. So they don't give themselves the time to grow and to mature. They blame themselves for not following through on what they wanted to do, and they blame the world for being too structured and boring and bureaucratic. Let's say you have a long term goal that requires organized finances. Like maybe you want to buy a piece of land and build your own farm, but you struggle to sit down and have a look at your bank account and figure out how you're going to save up enough money to accomplish this goal.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:25:12]:
Then, instead of learning this boring adulting task and getting better and better with numbers, you might complain that finances are complicated and that money is a construct anyway, and this sucks, and I just want to be lying down in the grass with my sheep already. And I say that with a lot of love because this type of perfectionist is the one I relate to the most. So I definitely understand that Peter Pan tendency to want to just have the magical parts of life and to skip the boring bits. You just want your life to be a movie, and you don't want the drudgery of ordinary life. So these were a bunch of examples of ways you might punish yourself. And if you're not sure how you punish yourself, you can think of how you show up with your loved ones when you're annoyed with them. How do you act when they don't do as you wanted them to? This might give you a clue. If, for example, you get distant and cold when your partner hasn't done the chores they were supposed to.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:26:24]:
Maybe you get distant and cold with yourself when you're not up to your high standards. Maybe you withdraw love from yourself. Might be super interesting here to make a list of all the ways that you punish yourself. And now what we need to do is to replace that with self compassion that will change your life. And you might be like, But Marie like, I don't deserve to be kind to myself. Look, I've only done one task on my to do list. Imagine saying that to a child, a child that had a hard day, and at the end they just want to get a hug. But you're like, no, you don't deserve a hug because you cried a lot today.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:27:16]:
That pierces my heart. That child always deserves your kindness, every single day, no matter what. That's unconditional love. Now, I understand that that's challenging because that's not the way many of us have been loved. So we have to reparent ourselves and rewire our neural pathways by practicing that unconditional self love. It doesn't feel natural at all until you've done it so often that it becomes your new normal. Let me give you an example. I wanted, when I started being a coach, to be someone who wakes up early.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:27:58]:
For some reason, I made it mean that I was going to be more successful if I woke up at five, because there's a bunch of books that talk about the habits of highly successful people. And so as long as I would wake up around like seven or eight or nine, I would be so annoyed, and I would start the day by beating myself up. I was like, okay, I can only be kind to myself if I wake up super early. The earlier I wake up, the kinder I can be to myself. But that is not a way to be. You cannot whip yourself into change and expect that you're going to feel good when you get there. You can't allow the time you wake up at to dictate the kind of human you are at your core and whether you deserve love from yourself or not. Now, don't get me wrong.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:28:57]:
Kindness doesn't mean that you let yourself do whatever you want all the time. You can be kind as well as disciplined and accountable. Like, think of it a teacher that was always kind to you in school but had high expectations because they believed in your capacities. They would never say something mean, but they would hold you to high standards. And these are the kinds of teachers that we want to make the most effort for. This is how you've got to be with yourself. Let's say you wake up at 01:00 p.m. In the afternoon one day and you realize you've missed a brunch you were supposed to go to.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:29:36]:
With friends, you have options. You can berate yourself. You can tell yourself something like, well, this is ridiculous. You're such a mess. How dare you? You should be ashamed. Or you can tell yourself something like, well, that's not great. Really, that's not great. I really value friendship.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:29:59]:
I don't want to be a flaky person. What happened here? And what can I do now? Maybe I need to apologize. Maybe I need to do things differently next time. How can I set myself up for success? These are two very different reactions to the same circumstance. Which one do you think is going to have the best impact? One is going to make you want to roll yourself into a ball and not come out of your bedroom for days. And the other one is going to keep you accountable. Yes. But it's also going to allow you to have a good rest of your day and to keep moving forward without feeling like a flat pancake.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:30:40]:
Now, it's also important to note that the reason you wanted to get up earlier is because you wanted to see your friends. Because you value friendship versus when I wanted to be a morning person, when I wanted to wake up at five. It was not in alignment with values that came from my heart, but in alignment with ego, with the thoughts that, like I shared earlier, I am going to be more worthy if I do X, Y and Z. So you want to interrogate the expectations you have of yourself. Do they come from a place of ego or do they come from a place of alignment with what really matters to you? Now, let's go back to kindness. If kindness is too hard because you've never been used to kindness growing up, then start with neutrality. Making yourself feel neutral about what's in front of you will free up space in your brain to think about what you can do next. Let's say you've accomplished one task out of the ten you had on your to do list.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:31:56]:
You can tell yourself, oh, I'm so fucking slow. That's very negative. And then the opposite of that on the other side, like, radical kindness would be like, but you did one. Like, you should be proud of yourself for trying and for showing up. Okay, you might be like, this is too much, Marie. Then what is neutral? Neutrality is just like, okay, I did one out of ten. Now what? We just remove the bitchiness. We just remove the judgment and that gives you space.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:32:31]:
Otherwise, your vision is just super narrow because you're stuck in a fear based reaction. You're running away from yourself. You're running away from the bully in your head. You'll be so much more creative when you feel safe inside of you. You might accomplish more in the last hour of the day after going treating yourself to a long walk than you did in the first six. So let's say you accomplished one task out of ten in the first 6 hours of your day. If you beat yourself up, you might just stay there. You might end your day feeling super frustrated and numbing in front of the TV.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:33:14]:
Versus if you tell yourself, okay, you accomplish one task out of ten. What do you need right now? Do you need some fresh air? Let's go for a walk. You resist the temptation to say you don't deserve a walk. You didn't show up properly today. You resist that temptation. You are kind to yourself. You go for a walk, you come back, and then in the last hour of the day, you accomplish two or three more tasks, right? So don't underestimate the power of kindness, or at least neutrality. I don't think the idea of neutrality is in the book the Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:33:52]:
But that's something I bring up a lot with my clients that I thought might be helpful to add in here. Now, lastly, we have takeaway number six, the importance of restoration. In order to get yourself to a place where you can be neutral or even better, where you can be kind, you might need to do a restorative activity like the walk that I mentioned. It might be for you. Taking a bath, playing a board game, reading, going for a bike ride. And this is not easy. This is a skill because it's so much easier to numb. Like I said, to be angry with yourself and then to just go drink a glass of wine really fast to go prepare some food.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:34:41]:
You know, like when you're I remember a moment when I was feeling this way. I made pasta and then I heated up the sauce in the microwave, but I forgot to put a cover on it and the sauce just exploded everywhere in the microwave. And then I started bawling my eyes out. That's the kind of things we do from a place of feeling inadequate. We're just going to binge fast food and get lost in front of the TV. That's just going to ensure that we have low energy and it's going to make it more likely. That we repeat the same cycle the next day. That's why in the book she talks a lot about prioritizing pleasure.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:35:27]:
You will get so much more done in the long term if you prioritize pleasure, because you won't burn out. But if you're in a controlling mindset, like we talked about earlier, pleasure is seen as a distraction. That's why it's so hard to allow yourself to experience joy, because it feels indulgent versus when you practice grounding yourself in a sense of self worth. Then it's easier to allow yourself pleasure if you're someone who values productivity a lot, which probably most of you are, because that's the culture we grew up in. Capitalistic culture values productivity. I want to offer a reframe, want you to think that everything you do that fills up your energy reservoir is productive. If it's watching a show that you love, getting a manicure, playing a sport, going to a bookstore, whatever fills you up is productive. Because then you get back to what you wanted to do with high quality energy.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:36:40]:
And like I shared, 1 hour of high quality energy is so much better than 10 hours of low groggy, foggy energy. In the book she talks about a concept that I love, that I won't take the time to go into here because we don't have all day. But it's energy management instead of time management. We tend to expect ourselves to function like machines, like work 8 hours every day. But we don't feel the same every day. So it's not realistic to just manage hours as if they're all created equal. No, an hour is going to be what you create in 1 hour is going to be completely different depending on so many different factors. The time of day, where you are in your hormonal cycle, what you've done the day before, how much you have slept.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:37:39]:
There's this amazing quote in the book that's when you don't get enough sleep, it's like not flushing a toilet inside your body. Let that image sink in. So yes, you want to focus on managing your energy instead of managing your time. She gives in the book lots of ways you can do that. Lots of passive and active ways to relax and to replenish. And now let's jump into what happens when each type of perfectionist takes the time to restore. Number one, parisian perfectionists. When they are restored, they understand that it's okay to seek validation from others, but that it shouldn't be the main way to gain self worth.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:38:26]:
It shouldn't be I am only worthy if I did a good job tonight at the party. I only deserve to fall asleep if I spoke to everyone. Otherwise I am doomed to look at the ceiling all night feeling bad about myself. No, when restored, Parisian perfectionists still seek connection. Deep, meaningful connection. But they do so in a healthier way, where they're not people pleasing or performing. Actually, they're no longer interested in connections. Where they have to perform because they no longer have anything to prove.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:39:03]:
They walk into a room feeling like they already belong, so they are more present. They focus on enjoying themselves and they accept that not everyone's going to be able or willing to connect with them, that not everyone's going to like them. They wouldn't like everyone anyway. And that's okay because they are connected to themselves. That makes me think about a client, a previous client of mine who said that she was like a candle when she was connected to herself. She was like a candle and it attracted people who wanted to be in her light instead of her having to chase people. I love that now. Messy perfectionists.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:39:46]:
When they are restored, they make peace with loss. They accept that they cannot live in all the cities and marry all the people and turn every idea into a reality. When they say real yes to one thing, they know that they're saying no to other stuff and that's fine versus when they're not restored they ignore that reality and pretend like their enthusiasm can turn a 24 hours day into a 48 hours one. It's kind of like magical thinking. When they are restored, they choose carefully what they want to commit to and what they want to let go of. For now, they set boundaries and they use their enthusiasm to get support. For me, that meant simplifying the hell out of my life, getting really clear on what I value and decluttering my life from the rest. So what I value is basically books and conversations.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:40:51]:
Basically, that's it. I want lots of time to read and I want to have deep conversations, whether it be with my clients one on one or whether it be with friends and family and people that I love. These are my two priorities. And then I got an assistant that helps me with editing this podcast. For example, I made peace with loss losing money because I'm not on TikTok. For example, I had a peer of mine telling me like, oh, you need to get on TikTok. That's the way to have more clients. But I like I said, crave simplicity.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:41:34]:
I just want to show up on Instagram, talk about my services, create this podcast about my work here. And I don't want to jump on every trend because I know that's going to drive me crazy. So I make peace with the money that I might be leaving on the table. I could be coaching so many more clients, but I have a limit because I want peace of mind. Because I want to spend luxurious amounts of time reading. I care more about that than I care about the amount of money that I could be making if I worked twice as much. I also have to make peace with the loss of all the careers I won't have the chance to try and all the books I will never get to read. That's where my state of mind is at when I make sure to be relaxed, to have a calm nervous system.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:42:38]:
And that, in my opinion, is the best way to be. Now, don't get me wrong. Sometimes I forget. Sometimes I don't sleep well. And then I get back into thinking that I need to do all the things that's okay, healing is not linear. It's normal to take a few steps back sometimes. Procrastinator perfectionists, when they're restored, they understand that it's not that the start of a project needs to be perfect, but that they need to internalize the idea that they will be okay if they fail. When they are not restored, they will tend to pursue goals that guarantee they won't fail, stuff that they know they can achieve.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:43:25]:
So they might, for example, take a job that they don't really want because they know they're going to get hired and they know they're going to be able to do the tasks and they basically know what to expect. Procrastinator perfectionist is kind of like they're pregnant with a baby that they idealize, that they spent like nine months visualizing as the perfect little being. And then when the baby comes out, it's kind of ugly and it cries a lot more than they had imagined. If they're not restored, procrastinator perfectionists, okay, that my analogy is faulty here. They're annoyed with the baby and they just want to put it back versus if they're restored, they take the baby as it is and they adapt because they know it's not a fixed state and that it will grow. They have loosened up and accepted that they have just little control over the world. And if we are thinking about the can I was telling you about earlier, they have loosened up their grip on it and they're like, I'm just interested to see how my baby will change as it grows up and see what I learn from this parenting experience. I was almost going to stop myself and rerecord the analogy because it didn't make sense, but I think that's the beauty of it, the beauty of weird analogies.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:45:07]:
Now I'm wondering if actually, when they are not restored, procrastinator perfectionists would not even want to get pregnant in the first place because their ideas for their kid would be so high. Then there would be too much risk in turning it into a reality. Or if they do get pregnant, they just want to stay pregnant forever so they don't have to face the reality of what it's going to be like anyway. Reach out to me if you have ideas on how to perfect this analogy. Moving on to classic perfectionists. When they are restored, they realize that it's not perfect order that they need. It's just that they value things functioning well. They're still going to seek structure, but they can let go of what they don't have control over and accept a little bit of chaos as a natural and unavoidable part of life.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:46:10]:
Most importantly, when they are restored, classic perfectionists let themselves feel the sadness or the other challenging feelings that they were covering up with their organizing. They make room for chaos inside of them. They can slow down, stop, just let themselves be with the wide breadth of human emotions. Yes, they're still going to put effort into planning, but they do so because they enjoy it, not because they fear that everything will fall apart if they don't. And lastly, we have intense perfectionists. When they were restored, they realized that they don't need the outcome to be perfect. They just want to matter and they want to add value to the world. When they're not restored, they're going to use goals as a way to show that what they bring to the world.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:47:12]:
Look, I organized the perfect event. Look, I created the perfect itinerary for the trip. Look, I got my kid in the best school. Tell me that I'm good. Tell me that I matter. But when they're restored, they realize that they matter now, right now as they are, that their friends love them without them having to organize the best trip, that their kids love them just when they chill on the sofa with them. They don't have to do everything in their power to get them to the best school. They're okay as they are, and they become more flexible and give themselves permission to get help when they are restored.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:47:54]:
So that's it for today. I don't know how long that episode was. It seems like we've been talking for a long time. Let's do a little summary and then I will let you go. The first takeaway was we need to unshame perfectionism and just celebrate it. Find ways to be adaptive perfectionists instead of maladaptive perfectionists. That's a skill we can all develop. Takeaway number two is the concept of liminal space and allowing yourself to be in those uncertain states between a state that you have outgrown and one that you have not discovered yet.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:48:32]:
Takeaway number three. Be careful of where and how you attach meaning. Are you attaching meaning to the outcome, which is going to make the journey very heavy, or are you attaching meaning to the process? You showing up along the way and celebrating the steps you take instead of the destination and whether you get to it or not. Takeaway number four. Are you using superficial control or are you leaning into your authentic power? If you are attached to the outcome or the way things should be, you are being controlling and that is because you are disconnected from your self worth. So when you connect back to your self worth, then you can use power. And there is a lot more space there, lot more playfulness and light heartedness. Takeaway number five the danger of self punishment.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:49:31]:
Get curious about how you punish yourself and replace that with kindness or at least neutrality. So that you can show up for yourself and make progress instead of numbing. And lastly, takeaway number six the importance of restoration. How can you prioritize restoration in your life so that all the beautiful gifts that you have as a perfectionist can come out and you can enjoy the ride instead of white knuckling your way forward? Okay, that's it again. Go get the book. If this was insightful, there is so much more in there. It's called The Perfectionist Guide to Losing Control by Catherine Morgan Schaffler. I 100% recommend it.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:50:23]:
Five stars. Get in touch with me on Instagram at Selfgirl Nerds to let me know what you think and if you've been wanting to work with me as a coach this fall. It's the last week to book a call. I don't know if I will have spots left by the time this comes out, but you can still take a chance by going to selfgrowthnerds.com audacity and it can actually be super helpful for us to talk, even though you might not be ready or there might not be spots available in the next few weeks so that you can prepare mentally. Take a few months, and then we can start working together early 2024 or something like that. So come get the information, and then you'll be able to get mentally ready for when we jump in and do the work together. Okay, have a wonderful week. Bye bye.
Marie-Pier Tremblay [00:51:24]:
Hey, if you love what you're hearing on the Self Growth Nerds podcast, and you want individual help finding a new direction for your life and developing the courage to make your dreams a reality, you have to check out how we can work together on selfgrowthnerds.com or message me on Instagram at selfgrowthnerds. My clients say they would have needed that support years ago. So if you're tired of feeling like you're wasting your life, don't wait. Get in touch now. And I cannot wait to meet you.